Private sale, fault found - help needed (again)
Discussion
Hello one and all,
I sold my car on Saturday, it was a private sale through PistonHeads. New owner has rung me today after doing 200 miles at the weekend and has said that there is a major fault with the car which will cost over £1000 to fix according to the garage he took it to.
The receipt that he and I have got both have a check box ticked that says sold as seen. Further to complicate matters, on the test drive he said that he was worried about the autobox holding gears too long. Prior to purchase and under the new owner's instruction, he asked me to check it at a franchised dealer, which I did and no fault was found. A complimentary health check was also done by the dealer at this time. This lead to the receipt saying "deposit will be refunded if fault is found before delivery only" (that's exactly what is written).
I had it checked at a recommended independent specialist who hooked the car up to microphones and took it for a road test and he found no undue noises. It was recorded on the invoice which has now passed to the new owner with the rest of the service history.
I am heading to Citizen's Advice tomorrow morning but any help or advice would be appreciated at this point.
Thanks
I sold my car on Saturday, it was a private sale through PistonHeads. New owner has rung me today after doing 200 miles at the weekend and has said that there is a major fault with the car which will cost over £1000 to fix according to the garage he took it to.
The receipt that he and I have got both have a check box ticked that says sold as seen. Further to complicate matters, on the test drive he said that he was worried about the autobox holding gears too long. Prior to purchase and under the new owner's instruction, he asked me to check it at a franchised dealer, which I did and no fault was found. A complimentary health check was also done by the dealer at this time. This lead to the receipt saying "deposit will be refunded if fault is found before delivery only" (that's exactly what is written).
I had it checked at a recommended independent specialist who hooked the car up to microphones and took it for a road test and he found no undue noises. It was recorded on the invoice which has now passed to the new owner with the rest of the service history.
I am heading to Citizen's Advice tomorrow morning but any help or advice would be appreciated at this point.
Thanks
Caveat Emptor.
Ask for him. He's a great help.
You've been more than diligent with the pre-sale stuff.
It's naff for the buyer, but all is fair. If you buy a car new it's £30k. If you buy 2nd hand from a dealer you pay £20k. If you buy from a private seller, you get no warranty but it's £15k.
You pay your money, you take your choice, knowing the gamble.
Ask for him. He's a great help.
You've been more than diligent with the pre-sale stuff.
It's naff for the buyer, but all is fair. If you buy a car new it's £30k. If you buy 2nd hand from a dealer you pay £20k. If you buy from a private seller, you get no warranty but it's £15k.
You pay your money, you take your choice, knowing the gamble.
From your OP it sounds as if the concern is with the gearbox.
It also sounds as if you gave the option of walking away should the pre-sale check highlight any problems.
It appears said check didn't highlight any problems and the buyer happily complete the sale.
All that being the case, I don't see where any liability for the seller would arise in the circumstances described.
It also sounds as if you gave the option of walking away should the pre-sale check highlight any problems.
It appears said check didn't highlight any problems and the buyer happily complete the sale.
All that being the case, I don't see where any liability for the seller would arise in the circumstances described.
randlemarcus said:
Justin raises an interesting response, if you eventually need one. How much is the equivalent from a dealer? Because that's your buyers repair fund.
In the meantime, keep trotting out the "sold as seen" line.
You can take the argument even further:In the meantime, keep trotting out the "sold as seen" line.
Let's say the OP sold his car, and the identical car in a dealer with a warranty is £5k more.
However, the OP's car was faultless for three years. Essentially, the buyer ended up with the same deal as if he bought from a dealer, saving £5k of expense...
...how much of this saving, morally or legally, should the buyer offer back to the OP for this stupendous deal where he got a deal better than he expected?
Silly question right?
But, the other way round, it's unfortunate that the buyer got a worse deal than he expected, however, this is the deal he chose.
Thank you for the responses people, I do feel bad for him, but then I did all the checks (probably more than others) before he drove away.
While I appreciate this probably does not matter in law, nothing has changed in terms of driving/noises etc from the day I bought it 12,000+ miles/15 months ago.
In answer to the question regarding price it's a difficult one there does seem to be variations, but these are the ones I can find with similar spec:
wewantyourcar = £4,300
WBAC = £4,700
my buyers price £5,050
£6,795 / £6,890 from independent dealers
franchised dealer £7,500 (or £9,450 with the same body colour/spec/wheel combo)
While I appreciate this probably does not matter in law, nothing has changed in terms of driving/noises etc from the day I bought it 12,000+ miles/15 months ago.
In answer to the question regarding price it's a difficult one there does seem to be variations, but these are the ones I can find with similar spec:
wewantyourcar = £4,300
WBAC = £4,700
my buyers price £5,050
£6,795 / £6,890 from independent dealers
franchised dealer £7,500 (or £9,450 with the same body colour/spec/wheel combo)
There are 3 possibilities here.
1 there is nothing wrong with the car and he's trying to scam you. (most likely)
2 the garage is trying to make some money for a non-existant fault (possible)
3 the car has developed a serious fault (unlikely)
Whichever of the above is true, none of it is your problem. Do not reply to him, as it will show him that you're worried and he will pressure you more.
I wouldn't waste any time going to Citizen's Advice, as there is nothing that the buyer can do, under the circumstances.
Tim
1 there is nothing wrong with the car and he's trying to scam you. (most likely)
2 the garage is trying to make some money for a non-existant fault (possible)
3 the car has developed a serious fault (unlikely)
Whichever of the above is true, none of it is your problem. Do not reply to him, as it will show him that you're worried and he will pressure you more.
I wouldn't waste any time going to Citizen's Advice, as there is nothing that the buyer can do, under the circumstances.
Tim
catman said:
There are 3 possibilities here.
1 there is nothing wrong with the car and he's trying to scam you. (most likely)
2 the garage is trying to make some money for a non-existant fault (possible)
3 the car has developed a serious fault (unlikely)
Whichever of the above is true, none of it is your problem. Do not reply to him, as it will show him that you're worried and he will pressure you more.
I wouldn't waste any time going to Citizen's Advice, as there is nothing that the buyer can do, under the circumstances.
Tim
I would say 50/50 on 1 & 21 there is nothing wrong with the car and he's trying to scam you. (most likely)
2 the garage is trying to make some money for a non-existant fault (possible)
3 the car has developed a serious fault (unlikely)
Whichever of the above is true, none of it is your problem. Do not reply to him, as it will show him that you're worried and he will pressure you more.
I wouldn't waste any time going to Citizen's Advice, as there is nothing that the buyer can do, under the circumstances.
Tim
Either way don't reply, he had plenty of opportunities to walk away. Legally he hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Has it occurred to you OP that your buyer could just be a scam artist trying it on?
The world is full of unscrupulous people who can see totally genuine in person.
You have clearly gone above and beyond to ensure the sale went smoothly and you shouldn't feel responsible for the car from the moment it left your possession.
The world is full of unscrupulous people who can see totally genuine in person.
You have clearly gone above and beyond to ensure the sale went smoothly and you shouldn't feel responsible for the car from the moment it left your possession.
Jasandjules said:
Tell him the car was provided in accordance with the contract (including a clean bill of health from your garage - which I trust was in writing and a copy provided with the vehicle) and therefore there is nothing you can do for him.
Agreed with the first part, but not the second... I'd offer to forward on all of the paperwork to him in case he needs it for evidence for his warranty company for a claim.
"Oh.. right.... you bought a car 'sold as seen', without a warranty, and you didn't buy your own....?"
Recently sold my mrs car... Guy won it on eBay turned up and paid cash.. Didn't even want to take it on a test drive despite me insisting on one! Get a phone call saying there is an issue half an hour later.. Told him nothing I could do but to get it checked out.. Garage showed it needing a lambada and I offered to pay half out of goodwill.. Which he turned down. You aren't obliged to do anything, do what you think is right - and if that includes telling the buyer to foxtrot oscar then so be it!
Thanks once again.
Re: the check, it was a free vehicle health check provided by the franchise dealer, which he looked over before he paid and left, however it was not in depth enough to pickup anything major.
The fault he has told me is either the LSD or the driveshaft, so not insignificant parts to replace in terms of cost. His garage (I think is another franchise dealer, but not the one I used) has told him it's something they see a fair bit. However when I did my research it was not one of the common faults that came up for this particular model/spec.
He has done a test drive, I did offer for longer but he didn't mind. After the autobox was checked (as his request) and he did not do another test drive.
He has also said he has done 200 miles since he bought it from me, if it even did do go anywhere would this be a factor? I don't know what sort of driver he is or anything, and 200 miles to me is quite a distance. Though on balance the 12,000+ I did with nothing untoward happening
He has also sent me an email, which I got my wife to read, she said that it was just outlining our phonecall. I think from now on it's email messaging from now on just so everything is in writing. I also plan to email him back tomorrow after deciding to offer anything or not.
Re: the check, it was a free vehicle health check provided by the franchise dealer, which he looked over before he paid and left, however it was not in depth enough to pickup anything major.
The fault he has told me is either the LSD or the driveshaft, so not insignificant parts to replace in terms of cost. His garage (I think is another franchise dealer, but not the one I used) has told him it's something they see a fair bit. However when I did my research it was not one of the common faults that came up for this particular model/spec.
He has done a test drive, I did offer for longer but he didn't mind. After the autobox was checked (as his request) and he did not do another test drive.
He has also said he has done 200 miles since he bought it from me, if it even did do go anywhere would this be a factor? I don't know what sort of driver he is or anything, and 200 miles to me is quite a distance. Though on balance the 12,000+ I did with nothing untoward happening
He has also sent me an email, which I got my wife to read, she said that it was just outlining our phonecall. I think from now on it's email messaging from now on just so everything is in writing. I also plan to email him back tomorrow after deciding to offer anything or not.
TommoAE86 said:
wewantyourcar = £4,300
WBAC = £4,700
my buyers price £5,050
£6,795 / £6,890 from independent dealers
franchised dealer £7,500 (or £9,450 with the same body colour/spec/wheel combo)
He can get the car repaired at his own expense and would still be up to £700 better off than if he bought a faultless one from and Indy or dealer... Don't feel bad about letting him sort it. Plus he could have ragged the arse off it for 200 milesWBAC = £4,700
my buyers price £5,050
£6,795 / £6,890 from independent dealers
franchised dealer £7,500 (or £9,450 with the same body colour/spec/wheel combo)
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff