Idiot "pens" my mums car
Discussion
Hi all,
I was speaking to my mother last night and she was in somewhat of a huff. It turns out she parked at a relatives house on a single-lane street that leads to a cul-de-sac and as she always does, in order to leave room for emergency services, or indeed drivers at the top of the cul-de-sac, she parked her knackered old Fabia half on the kerb, half off.
The road in question is here:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.160612,-1.12545,...
My relatives house is the one with the motorhome/ caravan on the drive. She parks right over their gate, half on half off, as she has done for many years.
Anyway, a couple of hours after parking up, she hears a car sounding it's horn outside, they peer out the window and see an Octavia sat at the bottom of the road, having turned in off the main. Then a bloke jumps out and walks up the street. They think nothing more of it.
A few minutes later they hear a horn again, so mum pops outside to see whats going on and if she needs to move the car. As she gets outside she gets a volley of abuse from the driver, explaining how she has blocked him from doing his job. It transpires he's some kind of catalogue bloke off to fetch his orders. My mum suggests (probably with some choice language knowing her) that she has parked like this to avoid blocking the road, something which catalogue man has not managed to achieve.
Anyway, he screams more abuse that he "cant get past", then proceeds to mount the kerb and drive past the car anyway! Unfortunately the twunt decided to punch the wing mirror in with his fist and then scraped a biro all down the side of the car! He spun around at the top of the road and then drove back past the car that was supposedly blocking the road and roared off into the distance.
No photo's as it was dark when she got home, but there is apparently a pen mark down every panel, and in some places it's now showing metal.
The car is 13 years old and cosmetically is average, but it's my mums daily and she's owned it from 3 years old. She loves it.
Anyway, a witness emerged from over the road with a registration number and one of the people at the top of the road suggests that this was actually the usual catalogue man's son and they gave my mum catalogue mans phone number. I assume any smart repair will be less than her own excess so no point going down the route of her own insurance.
The relatives mum was visiting called 101 and a copper is coming out today to see her, but I have a few questions:
I assume she has no worries about her parking? She's worried the copper will lecture her for it!
Will the police actually give a s
t about this?
Will she be able to claim from the other parties insurance for a repair?
I was speaking to my mother last night and she was in somewhat of a huff. It turns out she parked at a relatives house on a single-lane street that leads to a cul-de-sac and as she always does, in order to leave room for emergency services, or indeed drivers at the top of the cul-de-sac, she parked her knackered old Fabia half on the kerb, half off.
The road in question is here:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.160612,-1.12545,...
My relatives house is the one with the motorhome/ caravan on the drive. She parks right over their gate, half on half off, as she has done for many years.
Anyway, a couple of hours after parking up, she hears a car sounding it's horn outside, they peer out the window and see an Octavia sat at the bottom of the road, having turned in off the main. Then a bloke jumps out and walks up the street. They think nothing more of it.
A few minutes later they hear a horn again, so mum pops outside to see whats going on and if she needs to move the car. As she gets outside she gets a volley of abuse from the driver, explaining how she has blocked him from doing his job. It transpires he's some kind of catalogue bloke off to fetch his orders. My mum suggests (probably with some choice language knowing her) that she has parked like this to avoid blocking the road, something which catalogue man has not managed to achieve.
Anyway, he screams more abuse that he "cant get past", then proceeds to mount the kerb and drive past the car anyway! Unfortunately the twunt decided to punch the wing mirror in with his fist and then scraped a biro all down the side of the car! He spun around at the top of the road and then drove back past the car that was supposedly blocking the road and roared off into the distance.
No photo's as it was dark when she got home, but there is apparently a pen mark down every panel, and in some places it's now showing metal.
The car is 13 years old and cosmetically is average, but it's my mums daily and she's owned it from 3 years old. She loves it.
Anyway, a witness emerged from over the road with a registration number and one of the people at the top of the road suggests that this was actually the usual catalogue man's son and they gave my mum catalogue mans phone number. I assume any smart repair will be less than her own excess so no point going down the route of her own insurance.
The relatives mum was visiting called 101 and a copper is coming out today to see her, but I have a few questions:
I assume she has no worries about her parking? She's worried the copper will lecture her for it!
Will the police actually give a s
t about this? Will she be able to claim from the other parties insurance for a repair?
Snowboy said:
The cop will possibly say something about parking on the pavement.
But, I would expect him to be more concerned about the damage done by the other driver.
There is just one question though.
Was he complaining about the road being blocked or the pavement being blocked?
Road. He was trying to get to the old biddies at the top of the cul-de-sac to collect catalogue orders. My mum had, on arriving, turned around at the top and parked over the gate, facing down the road. So the damage is to the drivers side of the carBut, I would expect him to be more concerned about the damage done by the other driver.
There is just one question though.
Was he complaining about the road being blocked or the pavement being blocked?
If you scan around you'll notice that parking anywhere else would block a car/ drive. Also, there was already one car outside the house on the left in the only feasible spot for parking at the top.
Snowboy said:
The cop will possibly say something about parking on the pavement.
But, I would expect him to be more concerned about the damage done by the other driver.
There is just one question though.
Was he complaining about the road being blocked or the pavement being blocked?
Not sure why they'd complain about parking on the pavement - it's only forbidden in London.. But, I would expect him to be more concerned about the damage done by the other driver.
There is just one question though.
Was he complaining about the road being blocked or the pavement being blocked?
Snowboy said:
rscott said:
Not sure why they'd complain about parking on the pavement - it's only forbidden in London..
It is expressely forbidden to park on the pavement in London.But, I'm pretty sure there are countrywide laws about blocking the pavement.
But, I may be wrong. *shrug*
kambites said:
I think causing an obstruction is explicitly illegal. It's not very well defined, but a sensible interpretation seems to be that you should leave space for a wheelchair or pram to comfortably get through. Snowboy said:
It is expressely forbidden to park on the pavement in London.
But, I'm pretty sure there are countrywide laws about blocking the pavement.
But, I may be wrong. *shrug*
You are correct.But, I'm pretty sure there are countrywide laws about blocking the pavement.
But, I may be wrong. *shrug*
But in a quiet side road, as long as parking partly on the pavement doesn't block pushchair and wheelchair access I wouldn't see it as an issue and certainly preferable to blocking the road.
Delivery boy is probably quite a bad driver - if the OPs mum did leave enough room for emergency services, then he should have been able to get a medium sized hatchback through!
Sadly, I see this kind of bully boy behaviour every day when I'm teaching learners.
My car is covered in livery to say that it's a learner at the wheel and yet we still get shouted at for not being quick enough; blasted at if we are a little too slow for someone around a roundabout.
People need to chill out; we were all learners once I don't expect even the fastest of learners drove perfectly on their first few lessons.
Most drivers are angry at someone else because they have made a mistake and been driving too fast for the situation they are in.
Delivery boy is apportioning blame on the OPs mum for his inability to pass an obstruction in the road.
He certainly shouldn't have then proceeded to cause criminal damage. He's a thug and needs to be taught a lesson in manners and morality.
Kentish said:
Snowboy said:
It is expressely forbidden to park on the pavement in London.
But, I'm pretty sure there are countrywide laws about blocking the pavement.
But, I may be wrong. *shrug*
You are correct.But, I'm pretty sure there are countrywide laws about blocking the pavement.
But, I may be wrong. *shrug*
But in a quiet side road, as long as parking partly on the pavement doesn't block pushchair and wheelchair access I wouldn't see it as an issue and certainly preferable to blocking the road.
Delivery boy is probably quite a bad driver - if the OPs mum did leave enough room for emergency services, then he should have been able to get a medium sized hatchback through!
Sadly, I see this kind of bully boy behaviour every day when I'm teaching learners.
My car is covered in livery to say that it's a learner at the wheel and yet we still get shouted at for not being quick enough; blasted at if we are a little too slow for someone around a roundabout.
People need to chill out; we were all learners once I don't expect even the fastest of learners drove perfectly on their first few lessons.
Most drivers are angry at someone else because they have made a mistake and been driving too fast for the situation they are in.
Delivery boy is apportioning blame on the OPs mum for his inability to pass an obstruction in the road.
He certainly shouldn't have then proceeded to cause criminal damage. He's a thug and needs to be taught a lesson in manners and morality.
My mum is almost certainly guilty of blocking the pavement though! There's no way anything other than someone on foot could get by without crossing the road.
It's criminal damage. The police won't care about the parking. Nearly all parking offences are civil and dealt with by the local authority. The only ones the police deal with will, generally, have an element of danger and immediacy involved.
The questions are how strong the evidential chain is as the offence will potentially need proving beyond reasonable doubt.
1) ID - can we prove who it was in the car?
2) Cause and effect - can we prove that person had a pen in hand and was seen to apply the pen to the bodywork causing the damage?
3) Is there any room for wriggle? Is there a time delay between the confrontation and the discovery of the damage - perhaps someone else didn't like the car parked there in this time?
These are things any solicitor will think of.
It has nothing to do with the other vehicle.
The questions are how strong the evidential chain is as the offence will potentially need proving beyond reasonable doubt.
1) ID - can we prove who it was in the car?
2) Cause and effect - can we prove that person had a pen in hand and was seen to apply the pen to the bodywork causing the damage?
3) Is there any room for wriggle? Is there a time delay between the confrontation and the discovery of the damage - perhaps someone else didn't like the car parked there in this time?
These are things any solicitor will think of.
Snowboy said:
I see no reason he couldn't be done for hit and run and leaving the scene if he caused the damage while in his car.
It doesn't fit the definition of an accident. It has nothing to do with the other vehicle.
La Liga said:
It doesn't fit the definition of an accident.
It has nothing to do with the other vehicle.
If I read it correctly he was in his car when he did the damage; leaning out the window I assume.It has nothing to do with the other vehicle.
I honestly don't k ow if such a thing is considered to involve both vehicles or not.
Snowboy said:
If I read it correctly he was in his car when he did the damage; leaning out the window I assume.
I honestly don't k ow if such a thing is considered to involve both vehicles or not.
It's logical, and when you look at the definition it's easy to interpret it as such. However, it's like doing a 'drive-by' shooting and considering it an RTC. The car is facilitating the outcome rather than being the primary variable causing the outcome. It's presence isn't causing the damage, it's the presence of the pen being held by the man. I honestly don't k ow if such a thing is considered to involve both vehicles or not.
Perhaps if he attached the pen to the car, but we're venturing into exam territory with that one.
RTA1988 said:
Owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place, an accident occurs by which—
(a)personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b)damage is caused—
(i)to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(ii)to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(iii)to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road or place in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2)The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
(3)If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle] does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.
(4)A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.
(5)If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a)to a constable, or
(b)to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.
(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—
(a)must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b)must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.
(7)A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.
(8)In this section “animal” means horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.
(a)personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b)damage is caused—
(i)to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(ii)to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(iii)to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road or place in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.
(2)The driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.
(3)If for any reason the driver of the mechanically propelled vehicle] does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.
(4)A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.
(5)If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a)to a constable, or
(b)to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.
(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—
(a)must do so at a police station or to a constable, and
(b)must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.
(7)A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.
(8)In this section “animal” means horse, cattle, ass, mule, sheep, pig, goat or dog.
Fartomatic5000 said:
Most of these catalogs include some sort of scratch remover. You did get a catalog, didn't you?
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