Private Parking Cameras - Free Parking And Fraud?

[MagneticMeerkat]

Just a thought. I wouldn't do it of course, naturally, as I'm greatly in favour of private sector profiteering - but car park spy cameras. The ones that time how long a particular vehicle has been in a car park and issue tickets if it has over stayed; they work by reading number plates.

So what if one were to obscure the number plate on entrance and exit? Of course any bits of paper or whatever used for the purpose would be removed once the car was in the space. Then re-attached for the outward journey and taken off again once beyond the cameras' range. Of course to do that on the road is a crime; but what powers exist here? I suppose the parking company could argue criminal fraud, in that they were exposed to a risk of loss? But what loss?

[anonymous-user]

MagneticMeerkat said:

Just a thought. I wouldn't do it of course, naturally, as I'm greatly in favour of private sector profiteering - but car park spy cameras. The ones that time how long a particular vehicle has been in a car park and issue tickets if it has over stayed; they work by reading number plates.

So what if one were to obscure the number plate on entrance and exit? Of course any bits of paper or whatever used for the purpose would be removed once the car was in the space. Then re-attached for the outward journey and taken off again once beyond the cameras' range. Of course to do that on the road is a crime; but what powers exist here? I suppose the parking company could argue criminal fraud, in that they were exposed to a risk of loss? But what loss?

One of my roles at work is to negotiate the lease for the rental of our office block and car park.

The parking is a 'pay and display' car park with one of those computerised systems installed that recognises number plates, and you must pay for your time and enter your reg at the meter.

We pay £850 per space and rent 145 spaces, which costs us £123,250 per year JUST for the parking.

There is a touchscreen terminal in our office reception that allows visitors to our office to park in the car park and enter their reg on the touch screen so that they don't have to pay for parking.

But... It also allows us to enter reg numbers of cars parked in our reserved bays, disabled bays, badly parked, or double parked.

Given how much we pay for our parking, if someone saw you drive in with tape over your plates, you can guarantee that your number would get typed into the 'send them a parking charge through the post' screen on the terminal

The risk of loss is the loss of earnings from you 'stealing' a parking space for a day. No different to you going into WH Smiths and shoplifting a magazine that cost £6 or whatever.

Edited by NinjaPower on Monday 23 June 22:42

[aw51 121565]

NinjaPower said:

...

The risk of loss is the loss of earnings from you 'stealing' a parking space for a day. No different to you going into WH Smiths and shoplifting a magazine that cost £6 or whatever.

Edited by NinjaPower on Monday 23 June 22:42

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC - and add the £2.50 for the RK's details from the DVLA giving a total of £9.50.

Or - sod it! Make it a tenner including paper and ink and a stamp for the envelope containing the "notice to keeper".

The £60 within 14 days then £100 between 14 and 28 days after the alleged offence doesn't reflect this?

You'll blow the whole gaff wide open posting this stuff!!

[Countdown]

aw51 121565 said:

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC - and add the £2.50 for the RK's details from the DVLA giving a total of £9.50.

Or - sod it! Make it a tenner including paper and ink and a stamp for the envelope containing the "notice to keeper".

The £60 within 14 days then £100 between 14 and 28 days after the alleged offence doesn't reflect this?

You'll blow the whole gaff wide open posting this stuff!!

Because some companies are not providing a car park service. They need those spaces to run their OWN businesses. Hence the signs saying "Private -No Parking".

[nikaiyo2]

Why go to the bother?

I am assuming the OP is talking about free shopping center/ supermarket parking where the land owner invites you to park, so arguments about taking spaces etc become less relevant.

Just let the parking company issue a ticket and prepare a strong defence at POPLA for victory.

[tenpenceshort]

aw51 121565 said:

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC -

Not all parking spaces are there with an invitation for the public to use. Some are intended purely for specific users.

In those cases the damage should be trespass rather than contractual.

[surveyor]

Threads like these makes me actually miss clamper's. They were not nice people, but the threat of inconvenience to people generally worked.

[AA999]

Been wanting to install one of these for a while...

http://www.yourepeat.com/g/plateflipper.com

http://plate-changer.com/en/


Wouldn't actually be 'that' hard to create your own to be fair.

But yes, as I believe, public highway requires all the laws of the land to be applied, non-public highway doesn't. (Even though it can be classed as so called 'public access').
[stand to be corrected of course]

[anonymous-user]

aw51 121565 said:

NinjaPower said:

...

The risk of loss is the loss of earnings from you 'stealing' a parking space for a day. No different to you going into WH Smiths and shoplifting a magazine that cost £6 or whatever.

Edited by NinjaPower on Monday 23 June 22:42

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC - and add the £2.50 for the RK's details from the DVLA giving a total of £9.50.

Or - sod it! Make it a tenner including paper and ink and a stamp for the envelope containing the "notice to keeper".

The £60 within 14 days then £100 between 14 and 28 days after the alleged offence doesn't reflect this?

You'll blow the whole gaff wide open posting this stuff!!

Don't ask me... I just work here
I'm not the parking company who 'manages' the car park.

I guess if it was a £10 fine, everyone would take the piss and park for free, happy to be caught occasionally and pay £10.

£100 is more of a deterrent.

[bga]

aw51 121565 said:

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC - and add the £2.50 for the RK's details from the DVLA giving a total of £9.50.

Or - sod it! Make it a tenner including paper and ink and a stamp for the envelope containing the "notice to keeper".

The £60 within 14 days then £100 between 14 and 28 days after the alleged offence doesn't reflect this?

You'll blow the whole gaff wide open posting this stuff!!

How about the novel concept of respecting private property & abiding by the terms that they set?

If caravan dwellers parked in your back garden would you charge them the equivalent of an entrance fee to a similar green space?

[Corpulent Tosser]

nikaiyo2 said:

Why go to the bother?

I am assuming the OP is talking about free shopping center/ supermarket parking where the land owner invites you to park, so arguments about taking spaces etc become less relevant.

Just let the parking company issue a ticket and prepare a strong defence at POPLA for victory.

Alternatively why not just park according to the regulations set out by the car park owner ?

[PurpleMoonlight]

Corpulent Tosser said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Why go to the bother?

I am assuming the OP is talking about free shopping center/ supermarket parking where the land owner invites you to park, so arguments about taking spaces etc become less relevant.

Just let the parking company issue a ticket and prepare a strong defence at POPLA for victory.

Alternatively why not just park according to the regulations set out by the car park owner ?

That is far to sensible to contemplate....

[nikaiyo2]

PurpleMoonlight said:

That is far to sensible to contemplate....

I would agree with you wholeheartedly if the private parking companies did not act like such utter dicks.

We had a number off issues with a number of, but on in particular, PPC, where we were contracted to make shops secure after vandalism etc then re glaze them, for a number of national chains/ retailers etc), sometimes this took longer than 2 hours or required our vans to park in areas that would normally be off limits- for obvious reasons; or to leave site and return.

We would constantly get tickets from one PPC would appeal that we were the on the instruction of the land owner, provide copy contracts etc. they never accepted one appeal, when it all came to a head the sum was significant and resulted in the PPC having its contract cancelled with said national retailer nationwide.

I cant go into much more detail as there was NDA's etc at the time.

[AA999]

bga said:

How about the novel concept of respecting private property & abiding by the terms that they set?

If caravan dwellers parked in your back garden would you charge them the equivalent of an entrance fee to a similar green space?

I think the fight you pick there is the wrong one to be honest.

The fight should be between motorist and local council/government and their long standing anti-motorist stance. If they provided sufficient numbers of car parking spaces free of charge (or reasonable price - ie. £1 per hour) then there would not be the need for motorists to be pressured in to using other 'available' spaces.
Parking, in my opinion, should not be a multi-million pound industry in the UK to the detriment of local businesses and local people.

For too long local councils have had too many green targets set needlessly either by themselves or by government and even the EU, forcing cars and trade out of town/city centers everywhere.
If there was a realisation about this and an admission that needless green targets do nothing for anybody in particular (apart from those with vested interest in 'green stuffs' - who seem to be a controlling minority in this country) then there would hopefully be a situation where the numbers of parking and the controls on those spaces can turn in favour of the motorist.

Another factor to throw in here is that the 'standards/guidlines/rules' for parking spaces need to factor an increase in width to accommodate the growing width of vehicles being produced these days. (This is often a reason why people park not between the lines for example).

[bga]

I agree with you on the parking space sizes. I occasionally struggle to get my boys out of the SMax when parked in a normal size space and have people parked either side. Another 6" would be useful (phnar phnar) but even then it is a big bus!

I don't share your view on it being partially the fault of the councils/govt policy. There are always options. They may not be hugely practical but life isn't always like it. If we don't like it then we pay for more convenient parking that is likely private.

I have an office & it has meeting rooms. There is a legitimate need for people to use meeting rooms. If an uninvited person sets up in my meeting room then I can't blame the council/govt/LA for not providing subsidised meeting space.

[Red Devil]

NinjaPower said:

Given how much we pay for our parking, if someone saw you drive in with tape over your plates, you can guarantee that your number would get typed into the 'send them a parking charge through the post' screen on the terminal

You would need someone whose sole task that was in order to be sure of spotting the transgressor. Presumably the person specification includes X-ray vision.

The only way to get that number will require your staff to engage in direct confrontation.

[Countdown]

Red Devil said:

NinjaPower said:

Given how much we pay for our parking, if someone saw you drive in with tape over your plates, you can guarantee that your number would get typed into the 'send them a parking charge through the post' screen on the terminal

You would need someone whose sole task that was in order to be sure of spotting the transgressor. Presumably the person specification includes X-ray vision.

The only way to get that number will require your staff to engage in direct confrontation.

You'll be surprised how confrontational even the most mild mannered old dear can get when some inconsiderate person has ignored the Private Parking sign and pinched her parking space. Taking down their number plate details would be the least they would do.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

Red Devil said:

NinjaPower said:

Given how much we pay for our parking, if someone saw you drive in with tape over your plates, you can guarantee that your number would get typed into the 'send them a parking charge through the post' screen on the terminal

You would need someone whose sole task that was in order to be sure of spotting the transgressor. Presumably the person specification includes X-ray vision.

The only way to get that number will require your staff to engage in direct confrontation.

You'll be surprised how confrontational even the most mild mannered old dear can get when some inconsiderate person has ignored the Private Parking sign and pinched her parking space. Taking down their number plate details would be the least they would do.

Indeed.

If you think a strip of tape would prevent the reading of your plate, you would be mistaken

[Chrisgr31]

aw51 121565 said:

So why do PPCs not charge the cost of "whatever period" parking - £6 in your case, not that I'm suggesting that your company uses a PPC - and add the £2.50 for the RK's details from the DVLA giving a total of £9.50.

Or - sod it! Make it a tenner including paper and ink and a stamp for the envelope containing the "notice to keeper".

The £60 within 14 days then £100 between 14 and 28 days after the alleged offence doesn't reflect this?

You'll blow the whole gaff wide open posting this stuff!!

Because of course its not that simple.

Under the law as it stands they are apparently only meant to seek the costs of your overstay, however that does not take in to account the costs of enforcement. Enforcement costs are high, you need either a real person. or you need CCTV, you need premises so rent rates utilities, computer databases to track it, staff costs etc. All of which the have to be made by the law abiding motorists.

Its simple they should be able to charge the costs of enforcement to those that cant obey the rules.

[calibrax]

AA999 said:

Been wanting to install one of these for a while...

http://www.yourepeat.com/g/plateflipper.com

http://plate-changer.com/en/


Wouldn't actually be 'that' hard to create your own to be fair.

Don't. If the police see you have one fitted, they will consider that you are using it to avoid speeding tickets etc, and could charge you with perverting the course of justice, which potentially could result in a jail sentence. Just not worth the risk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7473547/D...