Homeless sleepers underneath our building
Discussion
We live in a small block of flats near a large city centre.
Underneath the building is an enclosed area where the wheelie bins are kept, this opens out on to the residents car park, which is surrounded by a fence and automatic gate.
Over the past few months, quite regularly, rough sleeping drug users have been sleeping in the area around the bins. To get in they climb the fence, then use the internal gate release to let others in.
Now I am very sympathetic of homeless people who have fallen on hard times, but it seems that these individuals choose to remain homeless, begging in the city centre to pay for class A drugs, the syringes of which they leave around our bin area.
Not only that but they are using the area as a toilet, dragging bits of cardboard and old mattresses in, pulling things out of the bin.
Truth be told, I am not frightened for my own safety, (not because I'm a powerfully built director - because I'm not) but because I have realised that the homeless community don't seem to be violent at all and tend to keep themselves to themselves - especially once they have used (A police officer told me that disturbing them after they have just arrived before they have used would be a bad idea).
However, I have spoken to them and asked them to leave and not come back, sometimes they do move on but often I see the same faces return.
The management company don't seem overly bothered, they could fit a second gate to this enclosed area but state they don't have the funds to do it. They won't fit anti-climb devices to the fence because they have been advised the fence is too low (approx 6 foot high) to do this.
The police rarely attend when called, stating that they won't really deal with trespass unless it's aggravated - and obviously resources direct them elsewhere
In short - it's a very unpleasant state of affairs. I really don't want to have to be confronted by homeless drug users sleeping in squalor, leaving drugs paraphernalia around nor have my other half confronted by it.
I guess I may have a few replies accusing me of nimbyism - and I guess I am guilty of this to an extent - but I wonder how many of you would be happy for such a situation to take place in such close proximity to where you live, park your car and have to walk regularly.
What would you do?
Underneath the building is an enclosed area where the wheelie bins are kept, this opens out on to the residents car park, which is surrounded by a fence and automatic gate.
Over the past few months, quite regularly, rough sleeping drug users have been sleeping in the area around the bins. To get in they climb the fence, then use the internal gate release to let others in.
Now I am very sympathetic of homeless people who have fallen on hard times, but it seems that these individuals choose to remain homeless, begging in the city centre to pay for class A drugs, the syringes of which they leave around our bin area.
Not only that but they are using the area as a toilet, dragging bits of cardboard and old mattresses in, pulling things out of the bin.
Truth be told, I am not frightened for my own safety, (not because I'm a powerfully built director - because I'm not) but because I have realised that the homeless community don't seem to be violent at all and tend to keep themselves to themselves - especially once they have used (A police officer told me that disturbing them after they have just arrived before they have used would be a bad idea).
However, I have spoken to them and asked them to leave and not come back, sometimes they do move on but often I see the same faces return.
The management company don't seem overly bothered, they could fit a second gate to this enclosed area but state they don't have the funds to do it. They won't fit anti-climb devices to the fence because they have been advised the fence is too low (approx 6 foot high) to do this.
The police rarely attend when called, stating that they won't really deal with trespass unless it's aggravated - and obviously resources direct them elsewhere
In short - it's a very unpleasant state of affairs. I really don't want to have to be confronted by homeless drug users sleeping in squalor, leaving drugs paraphernalia around nor have my other half confronted by it.
I guess I may have a few replies accusing me of nimbyism - and I guess I am guilty of this to an extent - but I wonder how many of you would be happy for such a situation to take place in such close proximity to where you live, park your car and have to walk regularly.
What would you do?
Good luck with this - it seems a hot topic at the mo and it appears the tree huggers are winning
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
Pixelpeep said:
Good luck with this - it seems a hot topic at the mo and it appears the tree huggers are winning
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
Yes I saw the homeless studs point - I can sympathise with both sides - obviously it's not pleasant to treat those at their lowest low like "pigeons" but conversely, all public or private land shouldn't be considered as sleeping accommodation.http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
AndyLB said:
Pixelpeep said:
Good luck with this - it seems a hot topic at the mo and it appears the tree huggers are winning
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
Yes I saw the homeless studs point - I can sympathise with both sides - obviously it's not pleasant to treat those at their lowest low like "pigeons" but conversely, all public or private land shouldn't be considered as sleeping accommodation.http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/07/ant...
Maybe put some CCTV there or have a keypad/fob installed on the inside of the gate too.
If its private then its trespass plain and simple - few calls to the police re drug use and 'i think i saw one of them with a knife' might help too?
I have the utmost sympathy for those that genuinely do not have anywhere else to go - but to pick a location because you can do drugs there you deserve to be sent on your way.
AndyLB said:
The police rarely attend when called, stating that they won't really deal with trespass unless it's aggravated - and obviously resources direct them elsewhere.
Andy, you should have a monthly community meeting (used to be called Police And Communities Together) in your area.Find the local safer neighbourhood team on the net which should have details of the next meeting. Take a few residents along (more the merrier) and go and discuss the matter and ask what can be done. Especially if the following applies:
- They are intimidating,
- Leaving drugs' paraphernalia,
- Putting visitors off visiting,
- Leaving litter / mess,
- They are abusive etc.
This is what PCSOs are for.
The police aren't just there to enforce, they can also talk to "partners" / other services who can offer intervention / help / housing etc etc.
And fundamentally, the more the get harassed at your place, the more likely they are to find a place where they don't get harassed.
Pixelpeep said:
'i think i saw one of them with a knife' might help too?
I am not assuming you would OP, but don't take advice to misuse the emergency system as a lie like this may place it above an incident where there is genuine, more immediate risk. AndyLB said:
The management company don't seem overly bothered, they could fit a second gate to this enclosed area but state they don't have the funds to do it. They won't fit anti-climb devices to the fence because they have been advised the fence is too low (approx 6 foot high) to do this.
Anti-climb paint to the top 300mm of the fence is cheap, easy to apply & won't inconvenience any normal users of the area.AndyLB said:
The police rarely attend when called, stating that they won't really deal with trespass unless it's aggravated
Criminal damage from toilet use? Possession of class A drugs? Think of the kiddies due to the needles?AndyLB said:
obviously resources direct them elsewhere
Resources is their problem not yours.You have to obey the law & will be punished if you break it, why shouldn't this apply to everyone else?
The point is they aren't breaking any criminal law, so it's going to feature very low on the police radar. It is, however, 'anti-social' (local authorities are the strategic lead for ASB) and suitable for PCSOs and Council Neighbourhood Response-types, as they'll be best placed to hep with the underlying problem and cause.
Enforcement rarely solves problems with the homeless since they can't go any lower.
Enforcement rarely solves problems with the homeless since they can't go any lower.
La Liga said:
am not assuming you would OP, but don't take advice to misuse the emergency system as a lie like this may place it above an incident where there is genuine, more immediate risk.
Thanks La Liga,For some reason, the police website does not list a PACT meeting for our ward/area. I have spoken to the neighbourhood policing sergeant - he was sympathetic, and did agree to speak to our management company, but also said that no direct action could be taken by the police without an offence.
I guess the thing is - the police can attend and move them on, but they come back - usually at 2am in the morning when everyone's asleep. I would like to see them charged with an offence of trespass, squatting, vagrancy so that they don't come back but not sure of the nuances of these laws - does anyone else know?
I was wondering about fitting some "furniture" to the areas where they sleep, not spikes but maybe an angled slope or something. I know the management company may not be overjoyed about this but they're so un-pro-active (I know - not a word) that I doubt they'd even be bothered.
miln0039 said:
Is possession of a Class A substance legal now?
I know they won't have enough for "intent to supply" but still....
You're right of course, but they get in there and use straight away, so by the time the police have got there there is no posession other than in their veins...I know they won't have enough for "intent to supply" but still....
If a couple of them got caught on the way in and had their gear confiscated they'd soon change their minds, but the Police can't hang around all week on the off chance unfortunately.
miln0039 said:
La Liga said:
The point is they aren't breaking any criminal law,
Is possession of a Class A substance legal now?AndyLB said:
I guess the thing is - the police can attend and move them on, but they come back - usually at 2am in the morning when everyone's asleep. I would like to see them charged with an offence of trespass, squatting, vagrancy so that they don't come back but not sure of the nuances of these laws - does anyone else know?
Your best bet is to have a read here: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/trespass_and_nu...ITs all great until someone goes out to put something in the bins pricks themselves on a discarded needle and then spends the next few months isolated from their spouse and in constant fear that of a positive result whilst Hep and Aids testing is done.
Be vigilant and demand action from police and the building management! Get organised and get the whole block to do something about it.
Be vigilant and demand action from police and the building management! Get organised and get the whole block to do something about it.
Rovinghawk said:
La Liga said:
The point is they aren't breaking any criminal law
Leaving aside the class A drugs thing, if I go and take a piss/crap on the steps of the local police station I'd be quite surprised if I found that a law hadn't been broken somewhere in the process.La Liga said:
hat'd more likely be a public place, plus there are old laws like "disorderly conduct at a police station" etc. So yes, you probably would.
Put another way- if I did it in your/someone else's carport I'm sure an offence could be found.If you want to use old laws, nick them on a Sunday for not attending archery practice. Do it a few times & perhaps they'll move on.
Going back to the drugs thing, possession of syringes, etc with traces of class A should surely be grounds for having a little discussion with them?
If the law isn't enforced because just it's difficult/unprofitable then it doesn't reflect well on the system.
Edited by Rovinghawk on Tuesday 24th June 15:33
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