PLEASE help with a road tax legal drama
Discussion
Bit of a complicated one this, I'm afraid I will need to set up some background first!
About two months ago I gave up my day job to work for a "friend" (lets call him X, he's the bad guy) in a garage. I'd known the guy about two years, but he didnt have the decency to warn me he was about to go bust, which he did, the very day I finished my day job.
So, I have started up my own garage venture in partnership with the ex-friends other mechanic, a guy we will call D (a good guy, who of course was also out of work when it folded due to the abject incompetency of X as a businessman).
It's all going pretty well for myself and D, but last week D received a county court summons in relation to the road tax on his car. About three months ago the car was put on the road after a lengthy restoration, D at this time did not have a bank account, the local post office closed down, so the most convenient way to buy the tax for the car was for D to give Mr X £165 cash and X sent a cheque off to the DVLA along with all the forms. ie bought the tax by post.
Around two weeks after this, D received a letter informing him that the cheque (signed by X) used to buy the tax had bounced, and funds needed to be re-submitted double quick! D gave this letter to X, X promised he'd sort it, D asked him about it again two days later and X promised that a new cheque had been sent off, the matter was under control.
Nothing further was heard until this friday, when D received a summons (by standard first class post) for an offence that basically amounts to buying road tax through false pretences, or not paying for it, or whatever they call it. I don't have the paperwork in front of me but I can get it. Crucially, the summons included a copy of a letter which was sent to D but *was never received by him*, this letter was dated around a month after the tax was first paid for, informing him that the second cheque had also bounced (or had never been received, not sure which) and he had 7 days to return the tax disc. There was also a witness statement from a DVLA-type bloke saying "I, such and such, posted this letter by first class post (NOT registered post), on this date at this time".
At the time, myself and D both trusted X and had no reason to believe he was the utter feckwit he later turned out to have been all along. We have no chance of getting the £165 back from him, but the main thing now is to keep D out of trouble!
I have absolutely no experience in legal matters at all, and I'm unsure what is about to happen. The court date is for mid-feb. Is it possible for us to contact the DVLA and try and explain to a human being what the situation is? The simplest solution all round would be for us to just pay the £165 bill for the tax disc which is currently stuck on the windscreen, we would have no problem with that at all but have events gone too far for that to be possible?
If that doesn't work, the next option is to go out an buy a new tax disc straight away, the car has been properly insured and MOT'd throughout, so that will show "good intent" to the court. Are they likely to realise that D is not a guilty party in this? Money is bloody tight what with this new company, as I'm sure you can imagine, and the letter listed some huge potential fines. Not to mention the vast hassle of time off work, all the attendant paperwork etc.
The real sticking point is that final letter demanding return of the tax disc, that was sent, but never received. I am pretty sure that "proof of posting" is not the same as "proof of receipt", but I am also aware that a lot of the decision will be down to the whim of the magistrates. Are they likely to believe that the letter was genuinely never received, or just assume that D chose to ignore it?
Thankyou to whoever has ploughed through this epic, hopefully someone can enlighten me with the best course of action!
About two months ago I gave up my day job to work for a "friend" (lets call him X, he's the bad guy) in a garage. I'd known the guy about two years, but he didnt have the decency to warn me he was about to go bust, which he did, the very day I finished my day job.
So, I have started up my own garage venture in partnership with the ex-friends other mechanic, a guy we will call D (a good guy, who of course was also out of work when it folded due to the abject incompetency of X as a businessman).
It's all going pretty well for myself and D, but last week D received a county court summons in relation to the road tax on his car. About three months ago the car was put on the road after a lengthy restoration, D at this time did not have a bank account, the local post office closed down, so the most convenient way to buy the tax for the car was for D to give Mr X £165 cash and X sent a cheque off to the DVLA along with all the forms. ie bought the tax by post.
Around two weeks after this, D received a letter informing him that the cheque (signed by X) used to buy the tax had bounced, and funds needed to be re-submitted double quick! D gave this letter to X, X promised he'd sort it, D asked him about it again two days later and X promised that a new cheque had been sent off, the matter was under control.
Nothing further was heard until this friday, when D received a summons (by standard first class post) for an offence that basically amounts to buying road tax through false pretences, or not paying for it, or whatever they call it. I don't have the paperwork in front of me but I can get it. Crucially, the summons included a copy of a letter which was sent to D but *was never received by him*, this letter was dated around a month after the tax was first paid for, informing him that the second cheque had also bounced (or had never been received, not sure which) and he had 7 days to return the tax disc. There was also a witness statement from a DVLA-type bloke saying "I, such and such, posted this letter by first class post (NOT registered post), on this date at this time".
At the time, myself and D both trusted X and had no reason to believe he was the utter feckwit he later turned out to have been all along. We have no chance of getting the £165 back from him, but the main thing now is to keep D out of trouble!
I have absolutely no experience in legal matters at all, and I'm unsure what is about to happen. The court date is for mid-feb. Is it possible for us to contact the DVLA and try and explain to a human being what the situation is? The simplest solution all round would be for us to just pay the £165 bill for the tax disc which is currently stuck on the windscreen, we would have no problem with that at all but have events gone too far for that to be possible?
If that doesn't work, the next option is to go out an buy a new tax disc straight away, the car has been properly insured and MOT'd throughout, so that will show "good intent" to the court. Are they likely to realise that D is not a guilty party in this? Money is bloody tight what with this new company, as I'm sure you can imagine, and the letter listed some huge potential fines. Not to mention the vast hassle of time off work, all the attendant paperwork etc.
The real sticking point is that final letter demanding return of the tax disc, that was sent, but never received. I am pretty sure that "proof of posting" is not the same as "proof of receipt", but I am also aware that a lot of the decision will be down to the whim of the magistrates. Are they likely to believe that the letter was genuinely never received, or just assume that D chose to ignore it?
Thankyou to whoever has ploughed through this epic, hopefully someone can enlighten me with the best course of action!
aww999 said:
Bit of a complicated one this, I'm afraid I will need to set up some background first!
About two months ago I gave up my day job to work for a "friend" (lets call him X, he's the bad guy) in a garage. I'd known the guy about two years, but he didnt have the decency to warn me he was about to go bust, which he did, the very day I finished my day job.
So, I have started up my own garage venture in partnership with the ex-friends other mechanic, a guy we will call D (a good guy, who of course was also out of work when it folded due to the abject incompetency of X as a businessman).
It's all going pretty well for myself and D, but last week D received a county court summons in relation to the road tax on his car. About three months ago the car was put on the road after a lengthy restoration, D at this time did not have a bank account, the local post office closed down, so the most convenient way to buy the tax for the car was for D to give Mr X £165 cash and X sent a cheque off to the DVLA along with all the forms. ie bought the tax by post.
Around two weeks after this, D received a letter informing him that the cheque (signed by X) used to buy the tax had bounced, and funds needed to be re-submitted double quick! D gave this letter to X, X promised he'd sort it, D asked him about it again two days later and X promised that a new cheque had been sent off, the matter was under control.
Nothing further was heard until this friday, when D received a summons (by standard first class post) for an offence that basically amounts to buying road tax through false pretences, or not paying for it, or whatever they call it. I don't have the paperwork in front of me but I can get it. Crucially, the summons included a copy of a letter which was sent to D but *was never received by him*, this letter was dated around a month after the tax was first paid for, informing him that the second cheque had also bounced (or had never been received, not sure which) and he had 7 days to return the tax disc. There was also a witness statement from a DVLA-type bloke saying "I, such and such, posted this letter by first class post (NOT registered post), on this date at this time".
At the time, myself and D both trusted X and had no reason to believe he was the utter feckwit he later turned out to have been all along. We have no chance of getting the £165 back from him, but the main thing now is to keep D out of trouble!
I have absolutely no experience in legal matters at all, and I'm unsure what is about to happen. The court date is for mid-feb. Is it possible for us to contact the DVLA and try and explain to a human being what the situation is? The simplest solution all round would be for us to just pay the £165 bill for the tax disc which is currently stuck on the windscreen, we would have no problem with that at all but have events gone too far for that to be possible?
If that doesn't work, the next option is to go out an buy a new tax disc straight away, the car has been properly insured and MOT'd throughout, so that will show "good intent" to the court. Are they likely to realise that D is not a guilty party in this? Money is bloody tight what with this new company, as I'm sure you can imagine, and the letter listed some huge potential fines. Not to mention the vast hassle of time off work, all the attendant paperwork etc.
The real sticking point is that final letter demanding return of the tax disc, that was sent, but never received. I am pretty sure that "proof of posting" is not the same as "proof of receipt", but I am also aware that a lot of the decision will be down to the whim of the magistrates. Are they likely to believe that the letter was genuinely never received, or just assume that D chose to ignore it?
Thankyou to whoever has ploughed through this epic, hopefully someone can enlighten me with the best course of action!
Sorry about the delay AWW, got distracted!
The problem about bouncing a cheque for road tax is that, simply because it is a tax, it is construed as criminal fraud, particularly when you do not respond to the first letter from them.
Now in Ds case he did not bounce the cheque and the DVLA of course are aware of this because they have it in their posession, but that in itself raises an interesting question.
Quite clearly it is not D who has committed the fraud, it is X, and he has not only defrauded the DVLA, but D also by not returning his money.
You may now find that the tax disc is no longer valid because they have cancelled it for non payment, so D might also be driving without a valid disc and therefore guilty of an offence, which some of our trigger happy BiB on here would be only too happy to remind him of as they took his vehicle and stuck it through the crusher.
Before I say anything else about this, let me tell you now, and frankly I don't care who's offended by this because it's a statement of fact that stems from years of bad experience. You will be hard pressed to find a worse bureacratic organisation to have to deal with than the DVLA. This present government have given them absolutely outrageous powers that they weild totally indiscriminately; so make allowances for that.
DON'T trust them, double check everything.
To justify what I have just stated, they think it acceptable to send you a summons that contains some sort of statement signed by a DVLA clerk stating he posted it; oh really!!? Good for him.
I am assuming you are in England, so it might be possible that there is a different standard of proof, but in Scotland there are only two standards of citation or proof of serving of a document; that is by Sheriff Officer, Police Officer or Recorded Delivery mail, nothing else is acceptable.
If you can't afford a solicitor I would contact your local CAB and make sure of your ground on this point, it's very important.
Most importantly is that you contact the DVLA first thing by phone; it might take hours to get through, but you have to persevere.
The soon as you do you MUST get the name of the person you speak to so they can't deny the conversation, explain to him that D did not commit the fraud but X did, they have the cheque that verifies this, D is willing to repay the road fund duty to keep his vehicle legal despite the fact that he did not bounce the cheque.
You must find out from them if the tax disc is still valid and if not you can simply tax the vehicle again.
You then write them a letter containing all the above points also requesting that they contact the CPS and suggest that they pursue X, and you and D would be perfectly happy to give them details about him, name, address, etc; and send it Recorded Delivery.
DONT drive the car until you either retax it or confirm the disc is still valid.
I would also take a copy of the letter you send them round to your police station and report X for what he has done; he has committed fraud on the DVLA and stolen your money; there is no reason whatever why the police should not now charge him.
Best of luck and keep me posted.
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