Porsche GT2 Driver gets 5 years for racing.
Discussion
Firstly appologies if this has been posted before, I had a very good look around and could not see it.
The original thread is here:
www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=e99251c2a644c3aea59401032ac9e694&threadid=63454&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Really makes you think..
>>> Edited by Phil S on Tuesday 14th December 00:30
Edited to remove names.
Linked Thread said:
well today my best friend ********** was sent to prison for 5 years !!!!. he was apparently invoolved with a motorbike racing in his GT2 . the motorcycle crashed in to on coming traffic and killed himself . the car involved was a porker . ******* swore on his new babies life it was not him !!! and i believe him . he was sticked up for doing somthing he did not do !!! trial was a complete farce . the original statements said a blue car not a black GT2 like **'s.
so guys and girls please please think about speeding on the road or racing anything . *** is a MD and a successful bussiness man with a wife and 2 children 1 just 24 weeks old .
i am so so upset . his life is ruined for what a silly race .
The original thread is here:
www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=e99251c2a644c3aea59401032ac9e694&threadid=63454&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Really makes you think..
>>> Edited by Phil S on Tuesday 14th December 00:30
Edited to remove names.
I think that sport and recreation are legitimate uses for the roads so I don't have a problem with drivers engaging in a bit of competition, depending on circumstances.
I'd rather share the roads with the likes of those who would drive in a spirited fashion than your average numptie who shouldn't be out there at all.
In this case it looks like the motorcyclist made an error of judgement and paid the price. Maybe his ego is bigger than his ability. For many, that is the case.
There are plenty out there who think they are good drivers, but are not.
I feel sorry for the car driver. I will never agree that raceing on the roads should be so harshly penalised.
It takes two to tango. How is one to know that when one asks for a dance that the partner has two left feet?
When I was younger and riding motorcycles with my friends, we were always competing with each other. We wern't going flat out everywhere of course, but giving it as much as the circumstances and our ability would allow.
Nothing wrong with that, I say.
Too many wowsers around these days.
I'd rather share the roads with the likes of those who would drive in a spirited fashion than your average numptie who shouldn't be out there at all.
In this case it looks like the motorcyclist made an error of judgement and paid the price. Maybe his ego is bigger than his ability. For many, that is the case.
There are plenty out there who think they are good drivers, but are not.
I feel sorry for the car driver. I will never agree that raceing on the roads should be so harshly penalised.
It takes two to tango. How is one to know that when one asks for a dance that the partner has two left feet?
When I was younger and riding motorcycles with my friends, we were always competing with each other. We wern't going flat out everywhere of course, but giving it as much as the circumstances and our ability would allow.
Nothing wrong with that, I say.
Too many wowsers around these days.
A few things that I find very bizarre having read the thread:
- initial media reports that they are hunting for a blue sportscar yet they bang up someone who lives locally and drives a black one. Unless they have CCTV footage of the events showing reg. nos., that seems like a pretty unsafe conviction to me.
- seems to me that the biker was going too fast into the bend and lost it. This probably happens every other day without it being a car driver's fault. Short of the "blue sportscar" giving him a nudge at speed (marks on the car?) or completely shutting the door on him I don't see how the car driver can be convicted for the biker's excessive behaviour.
- 5 years seems way excessive to me.
- initial media reports that they are hunting for a blue sportscar yet they bang up someone who lives locally and drives a black one. Unless they have CCTV footage of the events showing reg. nos., that seems like a pretty unsafe conviction to me.
- seems to me that the biker was going too fast into the bend and lost it. This probably happens every other day without it being a car driver's fault. Short of the "blue sportscar" giving him a nudge at speed (marks on the car?) or completely shutting the door on him I don't see how the car driver can be convicted for the biker's excessive behaviour.
- 5 years seems way excessive to me.
I doubt that even today you would get 5 years in prison for having a tear up – not calling the car driver a liar but I suspect he/she must have done a little more than just have a tear up(irrespective of the outcome of the race).
The bottom line is the car driver can only be done for what he/she did. People do not get banged up for 5 years for a motoring offence for no reason, nor are they likely to prosecute the driver of the wrong car. I have little or no respect for modern day law enforcement but even I can't believe they would have got it that wrong.
I can very easily see how this sort of situation can come about but today this sort of tear up is simply not on. Cars/bikes are far too fast for roads that if anything are worse than then years ago, a recipe for disaster. The ability of the driver/biker will no doubt make it safer but you cannot make allowances for what can happen on public roads.
The bottom line is the car driver can only be done for what he/she did. People do not get banged up for 5 years for a motoring offence for no reason, nor are they likely to prosecute the driver of the wrong car. I have little or no respect for modern day law enforcement but even I can't believe they would have got it that wrong.
I can very easily see how this sort of situation can come about but today this sort of tear up is simply not on. Cars/bikes are far too fast for roads that if anything are worse than then years ago, a recipe for disaster. The ability of the driver/biker will no doubt make it safer but you cannot make allowances for what can happen on public roads.
rjo said:
I think that sport and recreation are legitimate uses for the roads so I don't have a problem with drivers engaging in a bit of competition, depending on circumstances.
Are you for real?
I think you're thinking of something called a racetrack, not a public road
rjo said:
I'd rather share the roads with the likes of those who would drive in a spirited fashion than your average numptie who shouldn't be out there at all.
In this case it looks like the motorcyclist made an error of judgement and paid the price. Maybe his ego is bigger than his ability. For many, that is the case.
Even Valentino Rossi makes mistakes. Although he makes them on a RACETRACK!
rjo said:
There are plenty out there who think they are good drivers, but are not.
I feel sorry for the car driver. I will never agree that raceing on the roads should be so harshly penalised.
Not even if someone os killed?
rjo said:
It takes two to tango. How is one to know that when one asks for a dance that the partner has two left feet?
When I was younger and riding motorcycles with my friends, we were always competing with each other. We wern't going flat out everywhere of course, but giving it as much as the circumstances and our ability would allow.
What circumstances would those be?
Let me set the scene. 2am, Summertime, dry quiet road, A30 in Camberley
My best friend and his girldfriend were riding home on my friends motorbike when two 19 year old morons in 205 GTi's were racing down the A30 at speeds close to 100mph.
They were local lads, so they new the road well, so well that they cut the corner not realising that my friend and his girlfriend were coming the other way on his motorbike. Needless to say both my friend and his girlfriend were killed instantly. Leaving behind a 2 month baby.
"Circumstances" couldn't havent been any better for the guys racing. Would these circumstances still be acceptable to you if it were your family members that were killed?
I think not.
I drive too fast at times, I race people at times, but under no circumstances do I believe that it is acceptably to act this way.
Tonker it was in the UK.
www.mansfieldtoday.co.uk/viewarticle2.aspx?ArticleID=885737&SectionID=722&Search=darren
DAZ
www.mansfieldtoday.co.uk/viewarticle2.aspx?ArticleID=885737&SectionID=722&Search=darren
DAZ
midgster said:
I drive too fast at times, I race people at times, but under no circumstances do I believe that it is acceptably to act this way.
The previous poster you answered thinks it is acceptable and you slag him off for it.
You say "under no circumstances do I believe that it is acceptably to act this way" and yet you still drive fast and race people.
Why preach to him?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A Nottingham Paper said:
PORSCHE DEATH DRIVER IS GUILTY
REBECCA SHERDLEY LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT
12:00 - 12 November 2004
A Company director could be jailed after he was found guilty of causing the death of a motorcyclist in a 100mph road race.
Darren Cooper's love of flash cars immediately put him at the scene of the crash.
Nottingham Crown Court heard he was well-known for having nice cars and, on the day of the crash, had been driving around in a rare black Porsche 911 GT2.
The £105,000 car, bought for Cooper by his father, had only been in production since 2001, had an extra large spoiler and the registration plate GT02 DAZ - after Darren.
Only 58 were sold in the first year and 20 were black. The reg plate was added after it was bought on the internet.
Cooper's driving forced Mr Busby's high-powered Ducati Solo into the path of oncoming traffic, killing him, on the A617 Southwell Road West near Mansfield.
Cooper, who worked for a Mansfield company that fitted double glazing, left the scene.
But witnesses distinctively remembered the Porsche and gave statements to police about it.
Mark Taylor, of Big Barn Lane, Mansfield, one of Cooper's old school friends, got a glimpse of Cooper in the car - through a half-opened passenger window - just before the accident. He told the court he recognised the number plate and he had given Cooper a friendly wave.
But Cooper denied it was his car, even though he accepted he had been driving in the area at the time.
Cooper lived just half-a-mile away. The Porsche was not damaged, but word spread he had been involved in the accident and he was arrested.
Yesterday he was convicted of causing the death by dangerous driving of 36-year-old Mr Busby, of South Crescent, Clipstone.
The court was told how Mr Busby's Ducati pulled out from behind Cooper's Porsche 911, but swerved on a left hand bend and collided head-on with other vehicles. The occupants suffered minor injuries.
Mr Busby, a bus driver, died in King's Mill Hospital, Kirkby-in-Ashfield, following the crash, which happened at about 5pm on Saturday, April 12, last year.
Cooper, 27, of Kempton Road, Mansfield, was given an interim driving ban after he was found guilty. He was granted bail to return to court to be sentenced on December 10.
After the case, Det Insp Roy Edwards described how police spoke with Porsche manufacturers, witnesses and examined CCTV from private premises to place the Porsche and motorbike near the scene.
"It was a very, very difficult case in the circumstances and my heart goes out to the family who have waited many, many months for an answer to what happened," he said.
"Mr Busby was a father, a husband and a son. His family have had to endure an awful lot.
"They are trying to rebuild their lives under the circumstances. It was an absolute waste of life."
Ribol said:
midgster said:
I drive too fast at times, I race people at times, but under no circumstances do I believe that it is acceptably to act this way.
The previous poster you answered thinks it is acceptable and you slag him off for it.
You say "under no circumstances do I believe that it is acceptably to act this way" and yet you still drive fast and race people.
Why preach to him?
I was preaching that he thinks it is "acceptable" to race on public roads.
I'm sure we all do things in life but know that it is not really acceptable to do them.
Just because I do something, doesn't mean that I think it is right.
>> Edited by midgster on Tuesday 14th December 11:49
Midgster, - what happened with your friend and his girlfriend was horrific and I am sorry to hear of this. What can be stressed though is that the circumstances were NOT acceptable to be "racing". If you can't see round the corner - you dont cut it. Period.
I agree with the consensus here that we must be missing some HUGE key facts. Based on the "what if" type evidence that HAS been shown, there is no way ever that this conviction could have got to the stage it did - so there must be more. Equally valid, I think, is that this guy would have the capability to receive very good legal representation.
While it is a shame on the facts shown to us, let's not forget that we do not know the full story.
I agree with the consensus here that we must be missing some HUGE key facts. Based on the "what if" type evidence that HAS been shown, there is no way ever that this conviction could have got to the stage it did - so there must be more. Equally valid, I think, is that this guy would have the capability to receive very good legal representation.
While it is a shame on the facts shown to us, let's not forget that we do not know the full story.
Mmm, something is a bit whify here.
Fortunately, we dont have that many miscarriages of justice in the UK. In fact, normally its because of a couple of things:
1) The police lied - Birmingham 6
2) Incorrect or flawed professional evidence - recent baby deaths
It is fairly common to have slight differences between witness statements. What does seem to be the case is that there is other evidence suggesting that the car was present at the time. There maybe something fishy, but we really dont know the full story. Since the chap can afford to own a series of flash cars, he must be able to get a decent solicitor. As mentioned, he must have known that he was looking at a custodial sentence so he really should have presented better evidence than "it wasnt me"..... they need proof.... mobile phone, other witnesses, tracker data etc etc etc
Dodgy yes, but only because we really dont know both sides. Since its now a matter of public record, maybe someone can find out all of the relevant info? Also, if he really was stiched up - thats what appeals are for. No word if this chap is going to appeal, but failure to do does suggest that the evidence is pretty overwhelming...
Fortunately, we dont have that many miscarriages of justice in the UK. In fact, normally its because of a couple of things:
1) The police lied - Birmingham 6
2) Incorrect or flawed professional evidence - recent baby deaths
It is fairly common to have slight differences between witness statements. What does seem to be the case is that there is other evidence suggesting that the car was present at the time. There maybe something fishy, but we really dont know the full story. Since the chap can afford to own a series of flash cars, he must be able to get a decent solicitor. As mentioned, he must have known that he was looking at a custodial sentence so he really should have presented better evidence than "it wasnt me"..... they need proof.... mobile phone, other witnesses, tracker data etc etc etc
Dodgy yes, but only because we really dont know both sides. Since its now a matter of public record, maybe someone can find out all of the relevant info? Also, if he really was stiched up - thats what appeals are for. No word if this chap is going to appeal, but failure to do does suggest that the evidence is pretty overwhelming...
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