Towing

[daviddavies]

I've read a number of websites and haven't been able to get the right answer.

Can someone confirm what is/or is not required. (By way of tacograph etc.) if:

I am using a panel transit van, which has business stock within it to tow a caravan which is for personal use only. All of which is under the 3.5ton MAM.

The purpose of driving is to tow a caravan from one location to another for personal use...(And the van happens to still have stock within it).

[R0G]

daviddavies said:

I've read a number of websites and haven't been able to get the right answer.

Can someone confirm what is/or is not required. (By way of tacograph etc.) if:

I am using a panel transit van, which has business stock within it to tow a caravan which is for personal use only. All of which is under the 3.5ton MAM.

The purpose of driving is to tow a caravan from one location to another for personal use...(And the van happens to still have stock within it).

If no part of that journey - from base back to base - involves any commercial use then its exempt from any rules because it is being used only for private reasons

When you say MAM do you mean the vehicle GVW plated weight added to the MTPLM of the caravan or are you referring to actual weight?

Laws work on the plated weights not the actual weights

[daviddavies]

I'm a bit of a novice with weight acronyms too....basically I am saying that I want to use a transit van (which has some stock in and is sign-written with company details) to transport my own caravan from one location to another for personal use. I intend to use the small panel transit van to ensure I'm below the weight required for a taco. Or does it matter what weight I am if I'm towing a caravan for personal use.

I just want to avoid the scenario of being pulled over to be checked to find I have the law wrong, by being over weight or should have a taco etc.

[Spangles]

daviddavies said:

I've read a number of websites and haven't been able to get the right answer.

Can someone confirm what is/or is not required. (By way of tacograph etc.) if:

I am using a panel transit van, which has business stock within it to tow a caravan which is for personal use only. All of which is under the 3.5ton MAM.

The purpose of driving is to tow a caravan from one location to another for personal use...(And the van happens to still have stock within it).

I doubt the combined MAM of a Transit towing a caravan is below 3.5 tonnes.

[R0G]

Personal use = makes no difference what you use as long as the total of the plated weights is under 7.5 tonnes

GVW = max vehicle can legally weigh when fully loaded
MAM = max trailer can legally weigh when fully loaded
MTPLM = max caravan can legally weigh when fully loaded
All those weights are on plates attached to them

Licences and tacho rules etc etc go on those plated weights

B+E licence required if GVW + MAM or MTPLM add up to more than 3500 kg

Referring to the actual weight is of no use to issues like this

[R0G]

GVW = permitted Gross Vehicle Weight
MAM = permitted Mass Authorised Mass
MTPLM = Maximum Total Permitted Laden Mass

Basically they all mean exactly the sane thing

[Fletchyboy]

I currently tow a vauxhall firenza race car behind an ex RAC RWD transit rated to 2 tonnes (i think?). I would like to upgrade the van to something that I can fit a hillman imp inside, still tow the vauxhall and carry tools, spares etc. and be as small as possible so that the wife might not notice it on the drive. Any ideas anyone?

[daviddavies]

So to clarify (Sorry if I'm being special!):

If I was driving this van (link below) Dont know what it weighs?!
http://vans.autotrader.co.uk/used-vans/ford/transi...

And this caravan (link below) which weights 1,008 kg
http://caravans.autotrader.co.uk/used-caravans/lun...

And there was goods in the van - say 500kg (will never be that)

So combined weight of all is: 1,508kg + van weight

For personal use I only need a towing licence (I obtained mine after the cut off year). No need for taco etc etc.
And for argument sake; what do I need if I was driving for business.

Thanks for the help!

[kambites]

I'm not sure but I think anything that can be towed on a B+E does not require a tachograph; it's only once you get to the 7500kg licence category that you need one.

I might be wrong though.

[aka_kerrly]

Is it not the case that a trailer over 750kg which your caravan appears to be needs to be braked as well?

There are usually two numbers for braked and non braked weight which can be towed by a vehicle. Also if you acquired your licence prior to 97 you can drive up to 8T including a trailor and you don't need to worry about a tacho.

[Super Slo Mo]

kambites said:

I'm not sure but I think anything that can be towed on a B+E does not require a tachograph; it's only once you get to the 7500kg licence category that you need one.

I might be wrong though.

only if it's for private use. Anything over 3,500 kg's requires one for commercial use.

Anyway, OP, why would your van be carrying stock if you're not using it for business purposes for that specific trip? It seems to be to be a waste of fuel and time to lug heavy/valuable stock around for no reason.

Of course, it does seem as though you are looking for a loophole to exploit, some way of dragging a caravan somewhere to stay in while you then go off and work somewhere else, using the caravan as a base. This would mean you're potentially getting onto dodgy ground regarding it being an entirely personal trip.

While I don't personally have an issue with this, the police/VOSA aren't daft, so you ought to be careful to stay on the correct side of the law.

[Super Slo Mo]

daviddavies said:

For personal use I only need a towing licence (I obtained mine after the cut off year). No need for taco etc etc.
And for argument sake; what do I need if I was driving for business.

For business or personal use, you need to stay below 3,500 kilos maximum combined weight with your licence. I'm sure we're clarified recently that with the new licences that you have, you don't need to worry about plated weights, it's actual weight that matters.

If you're doing it for business use, strictly speaking you need to observe Domestic Drivers Hours Rules, and keep a logbook (pretty simple really). As per another thread where we've been discussing it, VOSA never really cared about this old rule, but they seem to be cracking down at the moment.

[daviddavies]

Thanks Super Slo Mo.

This is where I get stuck. I can drive the van around (with no trailer) not a problem. But then if I decide to move the caravan from A to B and don't want the hassle of unloading all the van to drop off the caravan at the new place to go back again for all the stock and essentially doing two trips. I know a number of people who have been pulled over recently and don't want to come a cropper for not knowing the law...even though many people don't seem to understand it.

So are we saying that anything below 3.5t I won't need a taco either personal or business? If thats the case I will have no problem as I cant see myself ever being over that.

[R0G]

Which transit is yours?
http://www.fordtransitdirect.co.uk/newsales/newvan...

[daviddavies]

Ford Transit Van SWB.

[R0G]

MTPLM 1008 so if the transit GVW is more than 2442 kg then its a B+E licence required

A private job with work tools in the van makes no difference = its still private .... unless its combined with a commercial job at some point between leaving base and returning to base

[R0G]

daviddavies said:

Ford Transit Van SWB.

Which model as there are loads of those

[R0G]

Super Slo Mo said:

For business or personal use, you need to stay below 3,500 kilos maximum combined weight with your licence.

Not quite correct - if he only has a B licence then he MUST by LAW not exceed the 3500 limit of the plated weights which in this case is 1008 + whatever the GVW of the van is

OP - the weight plate is hidden in the van somewhere - often under the bonnet or in a door frame
I need the top figure of the 4 listed
You could also post the second figure from the top of the 4 as that will be the GTW

Those figures should also be on the V5 registered keepers form

[Super Slo Mo]

R0G said:

Super Slo Mo said:

For business or personal use, you need to stay below 3,500 kilos maximum combined weight with your licence.

Not quite correct - if he only has a B licence then he MUST by LAW not exceed the 3500 limit of the plated weights which in this case is 1008 + whatever the GVW of the van is

OP - the weight plate is hidden in the van somewhere - often under the bonnet or in a door frame
I need the top figure of the 4 listed
You could also post the second figure from the top of the 4 as that will be the GTW

Those figures should also be on the V5 registered keepers form

I know we've discussed this more than once on another thread.
I also knew there was the slight anomaly with the B licence where it was defined around plated weights rather than actuals, but was under the, obviously misunderstood, impression that it'd been changed so that it was actuals.
The Government websites don't help when they refer to 'weight' rather than plated weights.

OP, take R0G's word for it on the minutae of the details.