PERSONAL INJURY RTC IN FRANCE
Discussion
Anyone with any experience or knowledge - your contribution will be welcome.
My nephew is working in France for a holiday company. He was asked to use a company vehicle to drive some staff to the station.
On the way, he was involved in a multiple RTC where apparently he shunted the car in front and he in turn was shunted from behind. There were other cars involved as well.
He has some minor injuries and will apparently be off work for a while.
I don't know how much use the company are being at the moment - they may be doing it all for him for all I know.
Assuming that they don't - any ideas about recovering lost earnings and personal injury (if applicable).
Does anyone have experience of this/useful advice? ?
My nephew is working in France for a holiday company. He was asked to use a company vehicle to drive some staff to the station.
On the way, he was involved in a multiple RTC where apparently he shunted the car in front and he in turn was shunted from behind. There were other cars involved as well.
He has some minor injuries and will apparently be off work for a while.
I don't know how much use the company are being at the moment - they may be doing it all for him for all I know.
Assuming that they don't - any ideas about recovering lost earnings and personal injury (if applicable).
Does anyone have experience of this/useful advice? ?
My mother and her husband while returning from their house in Spain a few years back were hit by a drink driver in France,they spent some weeks in hospital with spinal and other injuries,nothing permanent but bad.
On the day the crash happened and as next of kin,I was contacted firstly by the British consulate and then the french embassy in London asking for permission to operate etc.which I obviously gave.
Some 3 months after their return to the UK I received a bill for a little over £7000 from the French government.
I contacted the home office who put me on to someone else who basically told me to tell them to do one,which I did and have heard nothing since.
Just beware that`s all.
On the day the crash happened and as next of kin,I was contacted firstly by the British consulate and then the french embassy in London asking for permission to operate etc.which I obviously gave.
Some 3 months after their return to the UK I received a bill for a little over £7000 from the French government.
I contacted the home office who put me on to someone else who basically told me to tell them to do one,which I did and have heard nothing since.
Just beware that`s all.
According to French law, this will be categorized as "accident du travail" (I don't know the exact translation in English, it would be more or less "work accident"), meaning that expenses will be taken care of by the employer's insurance. Wages should also be paid as normal.
That's evidently assuming he was working under a french contract.
That's evidently assuming he was working under a french contract.
Loon, as you probably know, there are two questions when an incident that may give rise to a legal claim happens outside the jurisdiction of the English courts.
(1) Which national system of laws governs the claim? (governing law)
and
(2) Which court has jurisdiction to determine the claim? (jurisdiction)
The general rule in relation to a tort claim (eg carelessly causing injury) is that the lex loci delicti applies - that means the law of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Within the EU, jurisdiction over that claim lies with the courts of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Different rules apply when that place is not in the EU (thus for example the English High Court has accepted jurisdiction over injury claims arising from the Mumbai terrorist attack of a few years ago).
If both parties to the claim live in the same EU jurisdiction, the law of that jurisdiction can apply to the claim.
The relevant conventions and instruments are the Brussels and Lugano Conventions, the 1982 Act referred to above, and the Rome 2 Regulation of the EU.
(1) Which national system of laws governs the claim? (governing law)
and
(2) Which court has jurisdiction to determine the claim? (jurisdiction)
The general rule in relation to a tort claim (eg carelessly causing injury) is that the lex loci delicti applies - that means the law of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Within the EU, jurisdiction over that claim lies with the courts of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Different rules apply when that place is not in the EU (thus for example the English High Court has accepted jurisdiction over injury claims arising from the Mumbai terrorist attack of a few years ago).
If both parties to the claim live in the same EU jurisdiction, the law of that jurisdiction can apply to the claim.
The relevant conventions and instruments are the Brussels and Lugano Conventions, the 1982 Act referred to above, and the Rome 2 Regulation of the EU.
LoonR1 said:
He can bring the claim in this country if he wants to.
I'm not getting into the ins and outs though, not least as he was at fault for the start of the accident chain.
Correct. See regulations 10 and 11 of the Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) (Information Centre and Compensation Body) Regulations 2003.I'm not getting into the ins and outs though, not least as he was at fault for the start of the accident chain.
Breadvan72 said:
The general rule in relation to a tort claim (eg carelessly causing injury) is that the lex loci delicti applies - that means the law of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Within the EU, jurisdiction over that claim lies with the courts of the place where the harmful event occurred.
Have you read this?Within the EU, jurisdiction over that claim lies with the courts of the place where the harmful event occurred.
http://www.20essexst.com/newsite/sites/default/fil...
At the risk of being accused of pedantry, not quite correct, or rather correct but in answer to a slightly different question. The claim against the negligent driver would still be governed by ordinary conflict of laws rules (see above), but the 2003 Regs allow for a claim to be made to the UK compensation body if the insurer of the negligent party doesn't play ball.
PS: at the risk of invoking PH's special Godwin variant and turning this thread into a UKIP thread (like every other thread on PH), those who say "what has the EU ever done for us" can be pointed to the EU rules mentioned above, which make it easier to collect compo if run over by Hans, Knees and Bumpsadaisys' Ox cart in Lower Druselstein.
Breadvan72 said:
At the risk of being accused of pedantry, not quite correct, or rather correct but in answer to a slightly different question. The claim against the negligent driver would still be governed by ordinary conflict of laws rules (see above), but the 2003 Regs allow for a claim to be made to the UK compensation body if the insurer of the negligent party doesn't play ball.
Yes. I think I answered a question that wasn't asked.The injured person can only bring a claim against the MIB if he has not already claimed against the insurer of the vehicle. There are two further conditions, either of which will allow the injured person to go straight to the MIB:
1. Either he must have made a claim to the liable insurer or its representative and neither has provided a reasoned reply to the claim within a period of three months after it was made; or
2. The insurer in question has failed to appoint a UK claims representative.
Odenbreit is the case. It ruled that a German national on holiday in Holland who had a crash in Holland with a Dutch national was entitled to bring a claim against the Dutch insurer via the German courts.
It's something to do with the Fourth and Fifth Directives. The statement is now "An entitlement for injured parties to bring claims directly against insurers before the Courts in their own countries of domicile"
It's something to do with the Fourth and Fifth Directives. The statement is now "An entitlement for injured parties to bring claims directly against insurers before the Courts in their own countries of domicile"
"Schadeverzekeringen NV v. Jack Odenbreit (Case C-436/06) confirms that the Fifth Motor Insurance Directive permits victims of road traffic accidents in another Member State to bring direct actions against European domiciled insurers.
The five Motor Insurance Directives have now been consolidated into the Sixth Motor Insurance Directive (2009/103/EC)."
The five Motor Insurance Directives have now been consolidated into the Sixth Motor Insurance Directive (2009/103/EC)."
Gentlemen........what a pleasure to see some of SP&L's best experts discussing this case.
I've no new information as I've not yet had a chance to speak to his mum yet - I understand that the injuries aren't serious but she's understandably upset.
For what it's worth - nephew wasn't the first shunt, I understand that there were two cars in front of him and one behind, so regardless of his liability to the car in front, he was still shunted from behind and he wasn't the one who started it all (I hope that assumption by me is correct).
If it does get as far as instructing a lawyer - which it might not do - and if it can be dealt with in the UK, are there any recommendations or advice?.......I guess that your average AMC is not the best way to go.....or is it?
I don't think the sums involved are going to be that great.
Thanks all for your advice.
I've no new information as I've not yet had a chance to speak to his mum yet - I understand that the injuries aren't serious but she's understandably upset.
For what it's worth - nephew wasn't the first shunt, I understand that there were two cars in front of him and one behind, so regardless of his liability to the car in front, he was still shunted from behind and he wasn't the one who started it all (I hope that assumption by me is correct).
If it does get as far as instructing a lawyer - which it might not do - and if it can be dealt with in the UK, are there any recommendations or advice?.......I guess that your average AMC is not the best way to go.....or is it?
I don't think the sums involved are going to be that great.
Thanks all for your advice.
Edited by PV7998 on Thursday 4th September 21:48
Accident management companys dont deal with claims abroad - they're sometimes too complicated. You can bring the claim in the UK as stated under the 4th directive, however the liability stance will come into this.
Did he complete a constat amiable (agreed statement of facts). This is a legally binding document in France and should have the other drivers insurance details. I personally would email the MIB with this information for the UK handling agents for that particular insurer and contact them directly.
You will struggle to get anyone to deal other than your own insurer.
Did he complete a constat amiable (agreed statement of facts). This is a legally binding document in France and should have the other drivers insurance details. I personally would email the MIB with this information for the UK handling agents for that particular insurer and contact them directly.
You will struggle to get anyone to deal other than your own insurer.
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