Clerical error in my speeding conviction

[smileymikey]

A few months back while in North Wales. I drove past a speed camera on a dual carriageway I'd seen it in plenty of time and glanced at my TomTom which rated the speed limit at 40 mph looked at my speedo and I was doing about 35 mph. So carried on as normal, only to see the bloody thing flash as I sailed past. Sure enough about a month later I received the driver disclosure form from the police. On the form it stated I had been seen by a "manned camera" which I didnt think too much about at the time. The thing is I wasn't offered speed school or a fixed penalty I have just been fined over three hundred quid in my absence and three points. This notification states it was a fixed roadside camera. I'm applying to have the judgement set aside because I didnt receive a summons. Is the clerical error regarding the camera type enough to have the case struck out??

[SHutchinson]

£300 for 35 in a 30? What am I missing?

[hornetrider]

Are your details up to date?

Edit: did you send the form back?

[smileymikey]

SHutchinson said:

£300 for 35 in a 30? What am I missing?

Fine £200 Victim Surcharge £20 Costs £85 =£305....bds!!!

[Grandad7184]

£300 or £100?

£300 didn't send it back and court has awarded it. or did the op mis type?

I was caught last month doing 79 on the Duel carriageway and got 3 points and £100 fine with no course option

Edited to take out Motorway as it was A1 not M1(A1)

Edited by Grandad7184 on Wednesday 24th September 10:27

[CYMR0]

smileymikey said:

SHutchinson said:

£300 for 35 in a 30? What am I missing?

Fine £200 Victim Surcharge £20 Costs £85 =£305....bds!!!

But why no fixed penalty offer?

[smileymikey]

hornetrider said:

Are your details up to date?

Edit: did you send the form back?

It was a leased company vehicle. So by the time it got to me it was three weeks after the date on the letter. I returned the form within twenty four hours with a covering letter explaining the delay. I didnt receive a summons to go to court or any further documentation, simply the Notice of fine and collection order yesterday.

[anonymous-user]

Were convicted at court in your absence of failing to identify the driver?

[smileymikey]

La Liga said:

Were convicted at court in your absence of failing to identify the driver?

Convicted in court in my absence. They had received my driver details I had sent.

[SS2.]

smileymikey said:

Is the clerical error regarding the camera type enough to have the case struck out??

No.

CYMR0 said:

But why no fixed penalty offer?

At a guess..

Car snapped over the speed limit;
NIP sent to RK (lease company) with s.172 form;
New s.172 form sent to driver, as nominated by lease company;
s.172 form completed and returned by driver;
Offer of FPN / SAC sent to (but not received by) driver;
Absent response from driver, matter proceeded to court;
Driver convicted in his absence, bigger fine, costs, surcharge, etc..

Not sure why neither an offer of fixed penalty nor summons was received by the OP - something to be investigated, I'd suggest.

OP - after explaining to the magistrates that you would have accepted a SAC / FPN had you received the offer, they may well reduce the fine (& surcharge combined) to £100 ie the same as a FPN. This is probably the best you can hope for..

Edited by SS2. on Friday 5th September 10:47

[agtlaw]

smileymikey said:

It was a leased company vehicle. So by the time it got to me it was three weeks after the date on the letter. I returned the form within twenty four hours with a covering letter explaining the delay. I didnt receive a summons to go to court or any further documentation, simply the Notice of fine and collection order yesterday.

You returned the form and we know they received it because you were later convicted of speeding.

After you returned the form you should have been sent :

1. A letter inviting you to pay a fixed penalty / attend SAC

Then, when you didn't reply:

2. A summons / requisition.

Even if, unusually, you were not sent item 1 then item 2 must be sent.

You should look into this. The first thing to do is contact the court and find out where and when the aforementioned items were sent. If possible then get the advance information.

Edited by agtlaw on Friday 5th September 10:48

[TooMany2cvs]

smileymikey said:

I drove past a speed camera on a dual carriageway I'd seen it in plenty of time and glanced at my TomTom which rated the speed limit at 40 mph

You need your TomTom to tell you the speed limit?

[agtlaw]

SS2. said:

OP - after explaining to the magistrates that you would have accepted a SAC / FPN had you received the offer, they may well reduce the fine (& surcharge combined) to £100 ie the same as a FPN. This is probably the best you can hope for..

This is the general direction in which I'm heading, but before OP makes any application to the court, the steps I've outlined are advised.

[smileymikey]

TooMany2cvs said:

smileymikey said:

I drove past a speed camera on a dual carriageway I'd seen it in plenty of time and glanced at my TomTom which rated the speed limit at 40 mph

You need your TomTom to tell you the speed limit?

Not as a rule. In this instance it was heavy traffic on a dual carriageway in the rain. We were all travelling at a relatively low speed to account for this and no speed limit signs were visible in the thirty or so seconds I had to make a decision (if the safety camera is there for safety, why don't they stick a sign showing the speed limit on the camera?). I'm not blaming the TomTom, its usually pretty accurate. This situation was just one of those times that crop up in driving where you have to make a judgement call...In this instance my judgement was 5mph out....st happens

[smileymikey]

agtlaw said:

SS2. said:

OP - after explaining to the magistrates that you would have accepted a SAC / FPN had you received the offer, they may well reduce the fine (& surcharge combined) to £100 ie the same as a FPN. This is probably the best you can hope for..

This is the general direction in which I'm heading, but before OP makes any application to the court, the steps I've outlined are advised.

Thanks for your advise. The court is sending the paperwork for me to make an application to have the matter set aside. I think this means that I can apply to have the matter dealt with at levels more akin to a fixed penalty notice

[TooMany2cvs]

smileymikey said:

and no speed limit signs were visible in the thirty or so seconds

You DO know that tells you all you need to know, right?

[smileymikey]

TooMany2cvs said:

smileymikey said:

and no speed limit signs were visible in the thirty or so seconds

You DO know that tells you all you need to know, right?

Mate I was doing 35mph on a dual carriageway, not donuts outside a village primary school. If my post had started "The bhes are hating on me because, they are jealous of me BMW 316 punani magnet and that's why they gave me a ticket for driving at 105mph" I would understand why you were waiving todays copy of the Daily Mail in the air and criticising me without offering any advice that relates in any way shape or form to my request for advice.The questions are a. can I wriggle out of the offence on a technicality...answer now appears to be no( so I'm going to suck it up) and b. what can I do about it...answer apply for a set aside of the judgement. On the basis I cover about fifty thousand miles a year with no accidents and until this year no convictions, your advise may be better served elsewhere

Edited by smileymikey on Friday 5th September 11:48

[TooMany2cvs]

smileymikey said:

I was doing 35mph

...in a 30 limit that you didn't appear to know was a 30 limit, because you didn't understand what the signage was telling you, having last looked at a HC when you passed your test, at a guess?

[smileymikey]

TooMany2cvs said:

smileymikey said:

I was doing 35mph

...in a 30 limit that you didn't appear to know was a 30 limit, because you didn't understand what the signage was telling you, having last looked at a HC when you passed your test, at a guess?

Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I don't know about anyone else, but I have come away a better person as a direct result of your input

[worsy]

smileymikey said:

hornetrider said:

Are your details up to date?

Edit: did you send the form back?

It was a leased company vehicle. So by the time it got to me it was three weeks after the date on the letter. I returned the form within twenty four hours with a covering letter explaining the delay. I didnt receive a summons to go to court or any further documentation, simply the Notice of fine and collection order yesterday.

Others have pointed this out but I wanted it to be clear. Who was the s172 addressed to? Did the lease company just forward it to you?