Maybe just a little more effort?
Discussion
Long, indignant and boring, feel free to ignore!
I would first like to say that I very much support our Police force, am always courteous in my dealings with them and realise they have a bloody hard job to do. I would always put myself forward if I could help an enquiry in any way and really don't get the constant BiB bashing some people seem to live for.
However.
On Tuesday I parked a couple of vans up in a turning just off the Leytonstone High Road in pay and display bays while we worked in a block of flats nearby. This is a busy street, shops and businesses and lots of people about, we were parked just ten yards off the main road, it was 9 in the morning.
Returned an hour later to a smashed quarter window, it's the East End, it happens.
The van has secure locks so he had to wind down the window and climb in, he then rifled through everything and stole a jacket from behind the seat that belongs to Adam, one of my guys. Adam had left his house keys, car keys, credit cards (including one of my company cards) and driving licence in the jacket (god knows why, I tell them all the time not to leave stuff in the vans but there you are).
I ring the Police. While we're waiting a couple of guys come out from the shop opposite, they're sorry to hear about it, it happens every day, it's a crack head on a bike who they have nearly caught on a couple of occasions. The day before he robbed a BT van, at the weekend he did the builders van who are working across the road. Another guy came out from a a little firm a couple of doors down with the same tales of this local scumbag.
Police arrive, they're are friendly and sympathetic but not much they can do right now, forensics are called. I start chatting to the PC who says "These few streets in this area are currently the worst in the whole East End for car crime". Right, so not worth plotting somebody up and waiting for him then? "No, we don't have the resources" Fair enough, people getting tools and jackets nicked probably isn't the worst thing going on in this area so I don't argue.
While the forensics are dusting Adam is on the phone cancelling his cards, too late though it's already ben used ten minutes ago at the Food and Wine Express on Leytonstone High Road. We quickly alert the officers "Well, without knowing exactly which shop it is there's not much we can do, there are lots of little shops like that on the main road. In a couple of days the exact card machine location will come through then we can look into it" Really?
Forensics find nothing, I get my crime number and am advised to "Call us immediately if there are any developements" and off they go.
Leaving one guy waiting by the van for the glass company to come and replace the window 3 of us wander up the High Road, within 400 yards we come to the Food and Wine Express, a fair sized supermarket. Has someone been ion in the last half hour using a card? The owner knows immediately who has our stuff "Yeah, he was in here a little while ago, I'll go through the CCTV". He has cameras everywhere, he winds back and there, in full screen on a 60 inch monitor is the scumbag, wearing Adam's very recognisable jacket and using Adams card to buy booze (his card has the contact less thing on it). He goes back to get more booze and tries to use my company card but it doesn't work, you can clearly see the owner getting suspicious at this point and telling him he won't serve him any more, scumbag starts mouthing off and leaves the shop. The outside camera picks him up getting on his bike which has those really distinctive handlebars with the two bits that stick straight up.
Everyone knows this lowlife, shop owner says he lives somewhere on the estate behind the main road and is always harassing people and staggering about being a nuisance, it's been going on for months. The guy is more than happy to let us have the CCTV, tells me he will hand it to the Police and send us a copy, we get a couple of snaps on our phones of this idiots face, it is a very large and clear image. I call the Police straight away and give them all these new details, they say thanks, this information will be passed on.
We leave the shop and go looking around the estate but can't find him, now he has his booze he's no doubt happily getting pissed at home.
Adam has to change his house locks (scumbag has his address from driving licence) and his car locks. We both have to cancel our cards and the van window costs me 200 quid but we have proper evidence and every shopkeeper in the street can back it up.
Email today (three days after event):
We have investigated this incident and our enquiries are complete. However, we do not have sufficient evidence to proceed further, which means we must close the case.
What the juddering f
k?
If one copper walks into this shop and reviews the CCTV he will pick this up inside a couple of hours. A three month, one-man crime wave will be solved at a stroke.
Yes there is a lot going on in London but how the hell is this not sufficient evidence?
My faith has received a little knock here, won't change my overall view but ffs just take a little time guys.
I would first like to say that I very much support our Police force, am always courteous in my dealings with them and realise they have a bloody hard job to do. I would always put myself forward if I could help an enquiry in any way and really don't get the constant BiB bashing some people seem to live for.
However.
On Tuesday I parked a couple of vans up in a turning just off the Leytonstone High Road in pay and display bays while we worked in a block of flats nearby. This is a busy street, shops and businesses and lots of people about, we were parked just ten yards off the main road, it was 9 in the morning.
Returned an hour later to a smashed quarter window, it's the East End, it happens.
The van has secure locks so he had to wind down the window and climb in, he then rifled through everything and stole a jacket from behind the seat that belongs to Adam, one of my guys. Adam had left his house keys, car keys, credit cards (including one of my company cards) and driving licence in the jacket (god knows why, I tell them all the time not to leave stuff in the vans but there you are).
I ring the Police. While we're waiting a couple of guys come out from the shop opposite, they're sorry to hear about it, it happens every day, it's a crack head on a bike who they have nearly caught on a couple of occasions. The day before he robbed a BT van, at the weekend he did the builders van who are working across the road. Another guy came out from a a little firm a couple of doors down with the same tales of this local scumbag.
Police arrive, they're are friendly and sympathetic but not much they can do right now, forensics are called. I start chatting to the PC who says "These few streets in this area are currently the worst in the whole East End for car crime". Right, so not worth plotting somebody up and waiting for him then? "No, we don't have the resources" Fair enough, people getting tools and jackets nicked probably isn't the worst thing going on in this area so I don't argue.
While the forensics are dusting Adam is on the phone cancelling his cards, too late though it's already ben used ten minutes ago at the Food and Wine Express on Leytonstone High Road. We quickly alert the officers "Well, without knowing exactly which shop it is there's not much we can do, there are lots of little shops like that on the main road. In a couple of days the exact card machine location will come through then we can look into it" Really?
Forensics find nothing, I get my crime number and am advised to "Call us immediately if there are any developements" and off they go.
Leaving one guy waiting by the van for the glass company to come and replace the window 3 of us wander up the High Road, within 400 yards we come to the Food and Wine Express, a fair sized supermarket. Has someone been ion in the last half hour using a card? The owner knows immediately who has our stuff "Yeah, he was in here a little while ago, I'll go through the CCTV". He has cameras everywhere, he winds back and there, in full screen on a 60 inch monitor is the scumbag, wearing Adam's very recognisable jacket and using Adams card to buy booze (his card has the contact less thing on it). He goes back to get more booze and tries to use my company card but it doesn't work, you can clearly see the owner getting suspicious at this point and telling him he won't serve him any more, scumbag starts mouthing off and leaves the shop. The outside camera picks him up getting on his bike which has those really distinctive handlebars with the two bits that stick straight up.
Everyone knows this lowlife, shop owner says he lives somewhere on the estate behind the main road and is always harassing people and staggering about being a nuisance, it's been going on for months. The guy is more than happy to let us have the CCTV, tells me he will hand it to the Police and send us a copy, we get a couple of snaps on our phones of this idiots face, it is a very large and clear image. I call the Police straight away and give them all these new details, they say thanks, this information will be passed on.
We leave the shop and go looking around the estate but can't find him, now he has his booze he's no doubt happily getting pissed at home.
Adam has to change his house locks (scumbag has his address from driving licence) and his car locks. We both have to cancel our cards and the van window costs me 200 quid but we have proper evidence and every shopkeeper in the street can back it up.
Email today (three days after event):
We have investigated this incident and our enquiries are complete. However, we do not have sufficient evidence to proceed further, which means we must close the case.
What the juddering f
k?If one copper walks into this shop and reviews the CCTV he will pick this
up inside a couple of hours. A three month, one-man crime wave will be solved at a stroke.Yes there is a lot going on in London but how the hell is this not sufficient evidence?
My faith has received a little knock here, won't change my overall view but ffs just take a little time guys.
Call up and ask to speak to the duty Inspector to discuss the matter / complain. It could be "things weren't passed on" as they should, or it could be an unacceptable approach to make reasonable enquiries.
I can guarantee the managers who get beaten up over theft from motor vehicle offences, which are always scrutinised and an important indication (and possible performance target) of crime performance, will not be happy if an opportunity to catch someone like that is missed.
If there were clear CCTV of a suspect I knew about, and didn't follow it up (and a complaint were made), I think I'd be having an unenjoyable one on one with our superintendent.
I can guarantee the managers who get beaten up over theft from motor vehicle offences, which are always scrutinised and an important indication (and possible performance target) of crime performance, will not be happy if an opportunity to catch someone like that is missed.
If there were clear CCTV of a suspect I knew about, and didn't follow it up (and a complaint were made), I think I'd be having an unenjoyable one on one with our superintendent.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 3rd October 18:42
Sorry about what you have had to go through.
Unfortunately the CCTV doesnt show anything apart from a man buying something in a shop. Even if it could be proven it was your card that he spent, he would claim he found it on the floor.
Even if they can be bothered to view the CCTV, they are more than likely to tell you "there is no evidence of any wrongdoing shown".
And like someone advised earlier, do not be tempted to go looking for the scumbag, the Met police are quick to come down on hard working and law abiding citizens who are easier to prosecute than career crimimals.
Unfortunately the CCTV doesnt show anything apart from a man buying something in a shop. Even if it could be proven it was your card that he spent, he would claim he found it on the floor.
Even if they can be bothered to view the CCTV, they are more than likely to tell you "there is no evidence of any wrongdoing shown".
And like someone advised earlier, do not be tempted to go looking for the scumbag, the Met police are quick to come down on hard working and law abiding citizens who are easier to prosecute than career crimimals.
I would imagine your update re the CCTV never got to the OIC. As Liga says, phone up and update again. TUMV's are usually fairly hot potatoes and they are usually keen to climb all over them. If it's a case of the OIC knowing about the update, make a complaint.
Oh, and ETA, pretty much ignore what Eclassy says.
Oh, and ETA, pretty much ignore what Eclassy says.
Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Friday 3rd October 19:12
Eclassy said:
Unfortunately the CCTV doesnt show anything apart from a man buying something in a shop. Even if it could be proven it was your card that he spent, he would claim he found it on the floor.
Ahh, the old "I found someone else's card and used it" defence 
Do you actually think you know what you're talking about, or just don't care about providing bad advice?
Your crime commissioner will be able to sort this one out
And I lived in this area, my only advice is leave nothing of any value in your car / van or house because it will be stolen. The whole place is a sea of petty crime. The police won't be interested in general (unless things have changed in the past 25 years) . Estate agents will tell you it's the next up and coming area and your kids can run safe and free :-)
There is nothing stopping you putting up some info wanted pictures in the area I suppose with a reward offer. You might get your jacket back.
And I lived in this area, my only advice is leave nothing of any value in your car / van or house because it will be stolen. The whole place is a sea of petty crime. The police won't be interested in general (unless things have changed in the past 25 years) . Estate agents will tell you it's the next up and coming area and your kids can run safe and free :-)
There is nothing stopping you putting up some info wanted pictures in the area I suppose with a reward offer. You might get your jacket back.
Edited by sugerbear on Friday 3rd October 19:25
Thank you for all the helpful replies, I am calming down a bit now, I'd only just received the email before I posted.
In the last 12 months I have had three vans stolen and another written off by a hit and run, this stuff begins to stack up. It's that feeling - possibly misplaced - that the harder you try to do the right thing the easier it is for some scumbag to ruin it with seeming impunity.
In my ire I neglected to consider that the fresh info may not have gotten through, I'll pass that on via email.
At 50 years old I am far too slow to think of a dish best served cold but I have to say that I have quite a few young, strong and fiery guys working for me who don't live far from this area, I couldn't be absolutely sure that certain paths won't cross.
In the last 12 months I have had three vans stolen and another written off by a hit and run, this stuff begins to stack up. It's that feeling - possibly misplaced - that the harder you try to do the right thing the easier it is for some scumbag to ruin it with seeming impunity.
In my ire I neglected to consider that the fresh info may not have gotten through, I'll pass that on via email.
At 50 years old I am far too slow to think of a dish best served cold but I have to say that I have quite a few young, strong and fiery guys working for me who don't live far from this area, I couldn't be absolutely sure that certain paths won't cross.
I can't blame you for being riled. It grips me seeing these "little rascals" getting away with it day after day. It's so frustrating, and even more so when the CPS aren't interested, and if they are, the magistrates apparently aren't!
Hopefully the CCTV evidence never got passed on. Different forces act on different things differently, but certainly in my force, TUMV with excellent evidence like the CCTV will be lapped up. Just hope your force is the same!
Hopefully the CCTV evidence never got passed on. Different forces act on different things differently, but certainly in my force, TUMV with excellent evidence like the CCTV will be lapped up. Just hope your force is the same!
sugerbear said:
There is nothing stopping you putting up some info wanted pictures in the area I suppose with a reward offer. You might get your jacket back.
This is good advice. At worst, it will embarass the criminal. Just make sure you dont title it WANTED. Use something like REWARD.I did this for a tenant that absconded owing thousands of pounds in unpaid rent. Even the police that came looking for him for missing a court date found it hilarious.
Shame no one took up my offer of a reward of £250 for providing information which may be used to locate him
This is what I used. It was in all the windows of my flat for over 6 weeks and police who came looking for the guy thought it was funny and may be effective. These neighborhood watch officers obviously didn't know their job otherwise I should have been arrested and prosecuted.
Can our smart copper tell us what offense is committed by displaying such a poster? If the police wont do their job properly, they must realise that not all citizens are docile and some will take matters into their own hands within the confines of the law.
Nightmare said:
Why's that then? I'm intrigued!
I remember querying it before when I was studying for my part 1.I think the rationale behind it is it's bordering on PCOJ. If there was a theft, and you put up a poster asking for return of said item with "no questions asked", and item is returned, you're potentially ignoring evidence identifying or potentially identifying the offender. That's how I understood it anyway.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Nightmare said:
Why's that then? I'm intrigued!
I remember querying it before when I was studying for my part 1.I think the rationale behind it is it's bordering on PCOJ. If there was a theft, and you put up a poster asking for return of said item with "no questions asked", and item is returned, you're potentially ignoring evidence identifying or potentially identifying the offender. That's how I understood it anyway.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Nightmare said:
Why's that then? I'm intrigued!
I remember querying it before when I was studying for my part 1.I think the rationale behind it is it's bordering on PCOJ. If there was a theft, and you put up a poster asking for return of said item with "no questions asked", and item is returned, you're potentially ignoring evidence identifying or potentially identifying the offender. That's how I understood it anyway.
A few years ago I ran a business and we had a series of break ins through a fire door at the top of an external staircase. We could not secure the door any better because it was a fire door, but it was costing us a lot of cash to keep repairing the door.
Eventually a young police officer visited after the 5th break in and was in my business partner's office and he told her that there was little more they could do (they had done some basic SOC stuff).
I walked in and said it would not be a problem because I was going to fit some bare thin copper wires across the door and connect them alternately to the brown and blue feeds from the 240 v power socket. I said that the offender would get a nasty shock!
The young officer said "You can't do that". My partner pointed out that whilst I possibly should not do it, I most certainly could as I have wire, a plug and some power cable.
He returned later with a wireless signalled IR motion sensor which signalled their control centre. They caught the offender about 3 weeks later on our premises and he got time in a young offenders institute.
Now in this case, why not tell a senior officer not to bother too much as you and your 'friends' intend to find the offender and bring him to the police station after making a 'citizens arrest' by which time you will have his 'confession' on tape for them.
Eventually a young police officer visited after the 5th break in and was in my business partner's office and he told her that there was little more they could do (they had done some basic SOC stuff).
I walked in and said it would not be a problem because I was going to fit some bare thin copper wires across the door and connect them alternately to the brown and blue feeds from the 240 v power socket. I said that the offender would get a nasty shock!
The young officer said "You can't do that". My partner pointed out that whilst I possibly should not do it, I most certainly could as I have wire, a plug and some power cable.
He returned later with a wireless signalled IR motion sensor which signalled their control centre. They caught the offender about 3 weeks later on our premises and he got time in a young offenders institute.
Now in this case, why not tell a senior officer not to bother too much as you and your 'friends' intend to find the offender and bring him to the police station after making a 'citizens arrest' by which time you will have his 'confession' on tape for them.
sugerbear said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Nightmare said:
Why's that then? I'm intrigued!
I remember querying it before when I was studying for my part 1.I think the rationale behind it is it's bordering on PCOJ. If there was a theft, and you put up a poster asking for return of said item with "no questions asked", and item is returned, you're potentially ignoring evidence identifying or potentially identifying the offender. That's how I understood it anyway.
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