Rejecting a used car - Help Needed!
Discussion
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Short story - I purchased a car around 5 weeks ago from a used dealer for around £1900 on the proviso they arranged for it to be serviced as advertised (it hadn't been). Post purchase we arranged for the cambelt to be done at the same time for an extra £230.
After getting the car back various bits of trim had been put back shoddily and the car was seriously lacking power compared to before. Turns out the dealer users an 'ex-ford specialist' mechanic moonlighting from his normal job and not an actual garage.
A week later it goes back to them to be fixed as the timing is clearly out, I get it back and whilst it seems some power has returned it now idles at around 1200 rpm and sounds like s
t. I also notice at this point that the Engine Management Light bulb has been removed although I foolishly didn't check this pre-purchase.
I take the car back again and leave it with them for a week while I go away and am told they will send to a different garage as I didn't want the same guy working on it. I've picked up today to be told there is a fault P1381 - Variable Cam Timing Overadvanced (Bank #1) but they're not willing to spend any money fixing it as it drives fine and must only be a fraction out.
I've driven the car home and it drives like absolute st and they're is clearly something very wrong with the engine/timing, much more so in fact than before I handed it over to them again. I'm absolutely sik of the car and the attitude of the seller and my ideal scenario would be to hand the car back for a refund or at least a refund of the botched repair cost to pay someone else to sort the cock up.
They're basically saying it's my problem now and they're not interested, I'm planning on speaking to citizens advice but can anyone here help with regard to any tort law I may be covered under. Thanks for taking the time to read and any help is gratefully received!
Cheers
Dom
Short story - I purchased a car around 5 weeks ago from a used dealer for around £1900 on the proviso they arranged for it to be serviced as advertised (it hadn't been). Post purchase we arranged for the cambelt to be done at the same time for an extra £230.
After getting the car back various bits of trim had been put back shoddily and the car was seriously lacking power compared to before. Turns out the dealer users an 'ex-ford specialist' mechanic moonlighting from his normal job and not an actual garage.
A week later it goes back to them to be fixed as the timing is clearly out, I get it back and whilst it seems some power has returned it now idles at around 1200 rpm and sounds like s
t. I also notice at this point that the Engine Management Light bulb has been removed although I foolishly didn't check this pre-purchase.I take the car back again and leave it with them for a week while I go away and am told they will send to a different garage as I didn't want the same guy working on it. I've picked up today to be told there is a fault P1381 - Variable Cam Timing Overadvanced (Bank #1) but they're not willing to spend any money fixing it as it drives fine and must only be a fraction out.
I've driven the car home and it drives like absolute s
t and they're is clearly something very wrong with the engine/timing, much more so in fact than before I handed it over to them again. I'm absolutely sik of the car and the attitude of the seller and my ideal scenario would be to hand the car back for a refund or at least a refund of the botched repair cost to pay someone else to sort the cock up. They're basically saying it's my problem now and they're not interested, I'm planning on speaking to citizens advice but can anyone here help with regard to any tort law I may be covered under. Thanks for taking the time to read and any help is gratefully received!
Cheers
Dom
This has nothing to do with the law of tort (which deals with non contractual obligations based on fault).
Your claim is a contract claim, and the contract that you made is governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979, and most relevantly by section 14 of that Act.
Although the quality of a used car is not expected to be as high as that of a new car, the problems you describe suggest that the car may have been so defective when sold as to breach section 14, and that later attempts to rectify the defects have failed.
EDIT: I have changed my view on this - see below.
Stop using the car, and firmly but politely insist on a refund of the purchase price. You may need to back this up with a claim in the county court, if you are prepared to undergo the hassle and delay that this will entail. EDIT: disregard - see below.
An alternative is to arrange for the car to be fixed elsewhere and sue for the cost of doing that. If you have reasonably lost confidence in the selling garage to fix the car, taking that course would be reasonable.
In either event, paying for someone like an RAC or AA mechanic to write a report on the car may assist.
Your claim is a contract claim, and the contract that you made is governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979, and most relevantly by section 14 of that Act.
Although the quality of a used car is not expected to be as high as that of a new car, the problems you describe suggest that the car may have been so defective when sold as to breach section 14, and that later attempts to rectify the defects have failed.
EDIT: I have changed my view on this - see below.
Stop using the car, and firmly but politely insist on a refund of the purchase price. You may need to back this up with a claim in the county court, if you are prepared to undergo the hassle and delay that this will entail. EDIT: disregard - see below.
An alternative is to arrange for the car to be fixed elsewhere and sue for the cost of doing that. If you have reasonably lost confidence in the selling garage to fix the car, taking that course would be reasonable.
In either event, paying for someone like an RAC or AA mechanic to write a report on the car may assist.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 4th October 08:16
Breadvan72 said:
Having re read your post I don't think that you can reject the car,as the timing defect arose from work done after purchase. Your complaint is of work done badly. Get it done properly elsewhere and seek the cost of doing this from the selling garage.
Thanks, this was the option I thought I'd have to take and seems the most reasonable. So I'd pay for the work to be done again from scratch and then send them a letter with a copy of the invoice before eventually starting a small claims action if they refuse to pay? I must add reiterate that at some point the EML light has been removed and I am not in receipt of a diagnostic report so I don't know weather to get a fault read done too or just get the timing re-done from scratch.
Thanks for your advice
Right, well the car has been to a ford specialist for a bit, they've done 3.5 hours labour and have checked all the timing, compression etc. etc. but say that the ECU is still leaving the car in limp home mode. They've said in terms of diagnosis, how long is a piece of string, so I've paid the 3.5 hours labour and chalked it off as evidence gathering and now plan the reject the car. This decision has been reinforced by the following advisories from the garage:
Serpentine Belt in poor condition
Oil and Coolant Leak
Bolt in top of rocker cover stripped of thread
Engine Oil Overfilled
Front and Rear Brake discs badly corroded
Exhaust Blow, Cracked Catalyst
No locking wheel nut found
As far as I'm concerned, all these issues existed either at the time of sale or following work carried out on behalf of the seller and they have had the car back three times and say it is fine when clearly it's far from it.
So how does the actual process of rejecting the car work, I'm going to prepare a letter explaining the reasons which I will take with the car when I return it. I'll be asking for a refund of the purchase price and the cambelt change. What happens with the V5 doc? I'm expecting them to decline the refund as they've intimated they wouldn't do this in the past so I'm expecting to either start a moneyclaim online following the return or taking the issue up with Visa as a significant portion of the purchase was done on Credit Cards.
This is now a very delicate situation and I'm keen to hear of any success stories and anything advice on how to proceed.
Serpentine Belt in poor condition
Oil and Coolant Leak
Bolt in top of rocker cover stripped of thread
Engine Oil Overfilled
Front and Rear Brake discs badly corroded
Exhaust Blow, Cracked Catalyst
No locking wheel nut found
As far as I'm concerned, all these issues existed either at the time of sale or following work carried out on behalf of the seller and they have had the car back three times and say it is fine when clearly it's far from it.
So how does the actual process of rejecting the car work, I'm going to prepare a letter explaining the reasons which I will take with the car when I return it. I'll be asking for a refund of the purchase price and the cambelt change. What happens with the V5 doc? I'm expecting them to decline the refund as they've intimated they wouldn't do this in the past so I'm expecting to either start a moneyclaim online following the return or taking the issue up with Visa as a significant portion of the purchase was done on Credit Cards.
This is now a very delicate situation and I'm keen to hear of any success stories and anything advice on how to proceed.
I would agree with the new consensus that you should have done your homework first. You don't buy a house with a water leak and complain that your hair's getting wet, I can't see why a lack of inspection on a car is the fault of the seller.
Sorry to be blunt but it sounds like you bought a lemon and are looking for ways of getting a refund/compensation. Private sales don't work such a way so you'll probably have to write it off as a life experience and learn from it. I know it's not what you wanted to hear but I can't really say much else, apart from reminding you that at least it's only £1900, people have spent six figures on lemons before.
crouchingpigeon said:
Serpentine Belt in poor condition
Oil and Coolant Leak
Engine Oil Overfilled
Front and Rear Brake discs badly corroded
Exhaust Blow, Cracked Catalyst
No locking wheel nut found
You could have found these issues pretty easily had you inspected the car prior to purchase. As for the bolt thread issue, that's not the end of the world as there are ways of removing a stuck/rounded bolt.Oil and Coolant Leak
Engine Oil Overfilled
Front and Rear Brake discs badly corroded
Exhaust Blow, Cracked Catalyst
No locking wheel nut found
Sorry to be blunt but it sounds like you bought a lemon and are looking for ways of getting a refund/compensation. Private sales don't work such a way so you'll probably have to write it off as a life experience and learn from it. I know it's not what you wanted to hear but I can't really say much else, apart from reminding you that at least it's only £1900, people have spent six figures on lemons before.
Thanks amusingduck
People just love to have an argument on here. As above the car was from a used dealer and I'm not very experienced when it comes to buying cars. I looked it over, test drove it and it seemed okay. The issues materialised after a service and cambelt change which was contracted out by them. The issues re cracked catalyst etc were clearly there when I bought it and the Engine Management Light has clearly been removed. Also, I cannot get a diagnosis of the fault and the garage refuse to investigate further.
It would appear that the law is on my side to protect people in similar situations to myself.
So the crux of the matter is, is it fit for purpose and can I reject it, what's the process and what happens with the V5.
People just love to have an argument on here. As above the car was from a used dealer and I'm not very experienced when it comes to buying cars. I looked it over, test drove it and it seemed okay. The issues materialised after a service and cambelt change which was contracted out by them. The issues re cracked catalyst etc were clearly there when I bought it and the Engine Management Light has clearly been removed. Also, I cannot get a diagnosis of the fault and the garage refuse to investigate further.
It would appear that the law is on my side to protect people in similar situations to myself.
So the crux of the matter is, is it fit for purpose and can I reject it, what's the process and what happens with the V5.
Given that the car only cost £1900 most of the issues that you mention are indications of age and ordinary wear and tear or errors in maintenance and are not grounds for rejection in my opinion, but if the car is continually in limp mode, that is the point on which to concentrate, as that renders the car unfit for ordinary use.
Errors in maintainenece recently carried out by the garage from which I bought the car though. But yes, the car being in limp mode and the engine management light being removed are the key points, although these have only been noticed since the cambelt change and service that they arranged for me.
Just thought I'd give everyone an update on here in case it helps anyone in the future.
After a lot of work from and and a futile attempt to get the garage to refund me and return the car I instigated a section 75 claim against my credit card provider as, under the consumer credit act they are equally liable for the purchase of faulty goods. After an independent inspection which threw up all kinds of other issues (cracked CAT, perished bushes etc), my credit card provider have decided that it would be more cost effective to take the car off us and refund us the cost of the car, plus all consequential loss assosciated with the purchase (Cost of the cambelt change, attempted diagnosis and fix and inspection).
Obviously you should always inspect a car before you buy it and if in doubt, get someone more qualified to look it over, but while the law is often an ass, in the case of section 75, it's proven to be an absolute god-send!
After a lot of work from and and a futile attempt to get the garage to refund me and return the car I instigated a section 75 claim against my credit card provider as, under the consumer credit act they are equally liable for the purchase of faulty goods. After an independent inspection which threw up all kinds of other issues (cracked CAT, perished bushes etc), my credit card provider have decided that it would be more cost effective to take the car off us and refund us the cost of the car, plus all consequential loss assosciated with the purchase (Cost of the cambelt change, attempted diagnosis and fix and inspection).
Obviously you should always inspect a car before you buy it and if in doubt, get someone more qualified to look it over, but while the law is often an ass, in the case of section 75, it's proven to be an absolute god-send!
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