Faulty used Astra - Reject after 5 months?
Discussion
I was hoping I could get some advice on behalf of my girlfriend.
5 months ago she bought a 2010 Astra diesel from a Vauxhall dealership.
The car is on finance, and she'd also paid extra to have a 3 year warranty on the car.
After a couple of months, the car went into severe limp mode. (wouldn't go above 30mph) It was taken back to the dealership who said it was DPF problem. To rectify the problem they said they 'cleaned the sensor' and did a forced regen.
About three weeks later the same fault occurred. I expected more work this time, but they did another forced regen and checked / cleaned some parts associated with the intake system. He also told me that if it had been a town car before she bought it, sometimes it will need two forced regens to clean the DPF.
Yesterday the fault occurred once more.
They've phoned her up tonight and said that all they've done is a forced regen. She quite rightly said that's not curing the problem and they've tried that before.
Interestingly, they then said it's the first forced regen they've done! He said they just cleaned the sensor the first time, and just updated some software the second time. I know that's a lie, because of the service manager telling me before that two are sometimes needed.
My girfriend is obviously quite fed up. It's obviously highly likely to go wrong again, and she's worried about when and where it will happen.
As a side note it's also had warnings intermittently pop up with regards to the electronic handbrake, but they seem to have forgot about looking at that for her.
As they've had 3 attempts to fix the fault and have yet to actually replace anything, would it be possible to reject the car still?
And if she threatened to do that, would they be likely to fix it properly rather than go through the hassle of arguing about rejection?
Any thoughts from legal experts or people who have been in similar situations would be appreciated.
5 months ago she bought a 2010 Astra diesel from a Vauxhall dealership.
The car is on finance, and she'd also paid extra to have a 3 year warranty on the car.
After a couple of months, the car went into severe limp mode. (wouldn't go above 30mph) It was taken back to the dealership who said it was DPF problem. To rectify the problem they said they 'cleaned the sensor' and did a forced regen.
About three weeks later the same fault occurred. I expected more work this time, but they did another forced regen and checked / cleaned some parts associated with the intake system. He also told me that if it had been a town car before she bought it, sometimes it will need two forced regens to clean the DPF.
Yesterday the fault occurred once more.
They've phoned her up tonight and said that all they've done is a forced regen. She quite rightly said that's not curing the problem and they've tried that before.
Interestingly, they then said it's the first forced regen they've done! He said they just cleaned the sensor the first time, and just updated some software the second time. I know that's a lie, because of the service manager telling me before that two are sometimes needed.
My girfriend is obviously quite fed up. It's obviously highly likely to go wrong again, and she's worried about when and where it will happen.
As a side note it's also had warnings intermittently pop up with regards to the electronic handbrake, but they seem to have forgot about looking at that for her.
As they've had 3 attempts to fix the fault and have yet to actually replace anything, would it be possible to reject the car still?
And if she threatened to do that, would they be likely to fix it properly rather than go through the hassle of arguing about rejection?
Any thoughts from legal experts or people who have been in similar situations would be appreciated.
Needing a regen is normal, if the car doesn't get a chance to do it on the road, it'll eventually clog up as part of normal wear and tear.
It doesn't specifically prove there is a problem with the vehicle that needs repairing, or at worst, the DPF needs to be changed and thats going to be a wear and tear item too.
It doesn't specifically prove there is a problem with the vehicle that needs repairing, or at worst, the DPF needs to be changed and thats going to be a wear and tear item too.
TheEnd said:
Needing a regen is normal, if the car doesn't get a chance to do it on the road, it'll eventually clog up as part of normal wear and tear.
It doesn't specifically prove there is a problem with the vehicle that needs repairing, or at worst, the DPF needs to be changed and thats going to be a wear and tear item too.
It has more than enough of a chance to do it. It does a 50 mile round trip every day on national speed limit 'A' roads.It doesn't specifically prove there is a problem with the vehicle that needs repairing, or at worst, the DPF needs to be changed and thats going to be a wear and tear item too.
The service manager himself said the car 'should' be cleaning itself.
charltjr said:
No chance of rejecting it IMO. It's got an annoying intermittent fault which doesn't equal unfit for purpose.
Do you have another reasonably local dealer you could try who's maybe going to be less than totally useless?
So being restricted to 30 mph every few weeks doesn't make it unfit for purpose? (A genuine question)Do you have another reasonably local dealer you could try who's maybe going to be less than totally useless?
There is another dealer, but they are part of the same group. Would they be likely to do more if they knew it would make 'colleagues' at another dealer look bad?
She's doing short trips then? exactly what you don't do to a modern diesel with DPF!
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
windy1 said:
She's doing short trips then? exactly what you don't do to a modern diesel with DPF!
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
I do 5/6k miles a year. A lot of short journeys under 10 miles and the occasional long journey on the motorway. When I went ro buy my car, the salesman was hell bent on selling me a diesel even though I specced petrol. 'Because 80% of cars they sell is diesel' he said. Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
This car does approximately 12k miles per year. Was it really advisable to get a diesel?
Eclassy said:
windy1 said:
She's doing short trips then? exactly what you don't do to a modern diesel with DPF!
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
I do 5/6k miles a year. A lot of short journeys under 10 miles and the occasional long journey on the motorway. When I went ro buy my car, the salesman was hell bent on selling me a diesel even though I specced petrol. 'Because 80% of cars they sell is diesel' he said. Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
This car does approximately 12k miles per year. Was it really advisable to get a diesel?
Also many people do not know what the DPF warning light means - It doesn't mean to switch off the engine and restart. I had to explain this to my mother recently and told her to find a motorway and put the car in 4th gear at 2-3000 rpm under load for 20 minutes until the light went out.
Paul_M3 said:
So being restricted to 30 mph every few weeks doesn't make it unfit for purpose? (A genuine question)
There is another dealer, but they are part of the same group. Would they be likely to do more if they knew it would make 'colleagues' at another dealer look bad?
It's a good question, I personally don't think so because of the intermittent nature of the fault, but I'm just a lay person with very limited experience in this area. The car still functions and can be driven even when it goes ga-ga, albeit in a heavily restricted mode. I can't see that rejection would be anything other than a battle which will probably take a long time and a lot of hassle so I think you'd be better off focusing your attention on getting it fixed. There is another dealer, but they are part of the same group. Would they be likely to do more if they knew it would make 'colleagues' at another dealer look bad?
I think the idea of a letter to the dealer principal is a good one - was happy with the car, salesperson was excellent, would have been first choice when time to change car, problems with the service department letting the side down, losing faith in the dealership, can they help, blah blah blah. Might not help, but certainly can't do any harm.
I imagine the root of the problem is the usual target driven, no time to do a proper job main dealer aftersales experience.
It's a Vauxhall main dealer you're using? IME, and whilst they may not all be tarred with the same brush, they are one of the following when it comes to maintenance:
- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
windy1 said:
She's doing short trips then? exactly what you don't do to a modern diesel with DPF!
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
I don't think that you could reasonably call a daily 50 mile round trip as a short one. This would be ample time for everything to reach the correct temperatures.Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
I used to use a VW van around the City and the West End and my vehicle behaved perfectly, and only self-regenerated on the odd occasion.
A colleague who used an identical vehicle for longer trips, was having problems almost on a daily basis, with many call-outs and visits to the Dealers.
It transpired that the ECU was faulty and was dumping far more fuel into the engine than it should have been.
That vehicle was a proper friday afternoon special. Three engines, a DPF, flywheel and clutch, power steering pump and alternator all replaced in less than 30,000 miles.
Tim
CAPP0 said:
It's a Vauxhall main dealer you're using? IME, and whilst they may not all be tarred with the same brush, they are one of the following when it comes to maintenance:
- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
This ^ Hahahaha.- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
But don't give up with the dealership. It took me 6 months and 4 visits in total to 3 different Vauxhall dealerships before they finally replaced the £2,000 gearbox in my 61 reg Astra under warranty. Each time they were saying there was nothing wrong with the gearbox. Then they found metal pieces in the gearbox oil.
baccalad said:
CAPP0 said:
It's a Vauxhall main dealer you're using? IME, and whilst they may not all be tarred with the same brush, they are one of the following when it comes to maintenance:
- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
This ^ Hahahaha.- idiots who don't know a DPF from a wheel nut
- compulsive liars who expect you to know nothing and therefore feel they can be as dishonest as they like
- in cahoots with Luton and consequently applying either or both of the above to save the overall corporation from spending money on fault rectification.
On the basis that you're unlikely to be able to reject, or indeed to getthat fault fixed to your satisfaction, you will quite seriously be far better off finding a knowledgable indy and paying to have the fault diagnosed and fixed at your expense. The money you soend in this will be less than the cost of multiple repest prescriptions for blood-pressure tablets if you persist with the Vauxhall route.
I will never, ever buy another Vauxhall car no matter how good or appealing it is.
But don't give up with the dealership. It took me 6 months and 4 visits in total to 3 different Vauxhall dealerships before they finally replaced the £2,000 gearbox in my 61 reg Astra under warranty. Each time they were saying there was nothing wrong with the gearbox. Then they found metal pieces in the gearbox oil.
Give up on the dealership and get a proper mechanic to look at it. Shun the spotty oik with his diagnostic system and lack of mechanical acumen.
Have I mentioned I hate main dealers?
Edited by Oldred_V8S on Wednesday 8th October 15:46
windy1 said:
Eclassy said:
windy1 said:
She's doing short trips then? exactly what you don't do to a modern diesel with DPF!
Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
I do 5/6k miles a year. A lot of short journeys under 10 miles and the occasional long journey on the motorway. When I went ro buy my car, the salesman was hell bent on selling me a diesel even though I specced petrol. 'Because 80% of cars they sell is diesel' he said. Was there a little leaflet attached to the rear view mirror explaining what the DPF warning light means & why she shouldn't have bought the car in the first place? The salesman should have also told her this before money exchanged hands.
They seemed to be making a big thing of this now - probably because of the warranty issues.
This car does approximately 12k miles per year. Was it really advisable to get a diesel?
Also many people do not know what the DPF warning light means - It doesn't mean to switch off the engine and restart. I had to explain this to my mother recently and told her to find a motorway and put the car in 4th gear at 2-3000 rpm under load for 20 minutes until the light went out.
In reality, her journey is slightly longer most days. She's actually done 10k miles in the last 5 months, which is MORE than enough to make a diesel vehicle a suitable choice.
The dealer service manager even initially tried to blame it on short journeys until she explained what mileage she did. He then admitted that should be perfect for keeping the car in good order.
Thanks for the comments from everybody else.
She picked up the car today, but will be writing a letter to the dealer principle explaining her displeasure. I also won't let them get away with not actually fixing anything next time.
And I agree they are a bunch of muppets. There's no way it'd be going there for repair if it wasn't under warranty.
Driver101 said:
A lot of the extended warranties I've seen specifically exclude the DPF.
How many miles has the car done?
Yeah, I haven't checked the small print regarding that.How many miles has the car done?
Although I'm not sure the DPF needs replacing. I think it's some kind of sensor issue. You should get a DPF light on the dash if it hasn't been able to regen properly and is getting blocked. That light has never been on once. The car goes from running perfectly, straight into limp mode.
Could also be the small bore impulse pipework to the sensor blocked with soot and they haven't cleaned it. (Or something equally basic)
I'm not sure on the mileage to be honest with you. I think it's around 35,000 miles.
I'd like see the differential pressure readings when the car goes in, and when it comes back. And how close to the fault level they still are. Twice now it's come back after approximately 3 weeks of driving.
Thanks for all the comments, will wait for the fault to re-occur in about three weeks and have another argument with them! :-)
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