Just Who Is To Blame?
Discussion
A 13 year old has been convicted of drink driving at Salford Magistrates Court.
He stole the car and GMP chased him through Manchester's streets - eventually being copped after mounting the pavement at speed and damaging the wheels.
In court - it emerged that this boy already has an ASBO against him, and beed disqualified from driving twice before
He's only 13 years old.
The case has shocked GMP and Brake as "the law is no detrerrent to these yobs" :
Well, well. Penny drops!
Nor is a scamera to these yobs either - and they are the ones causing the accidents - in the less lucrative spots of course
The police: "It is dreadful to think one so young can be involved in such terrible activities!"
Welcome to the real world - being a child does not mean "pure as a new born"
Zoe Stow (Roadpeace): "Hit and runs are endemic in big towns and this is why they run - unlicenced,ovr the limit and uninsured!"
Whose fault Zoe? Your beloved speed cameras are helping create this! Remind me again? Where are traffic police in the areas where speed cams reign? And not seeing as many Plod as I used to on my visits to Manchester! Less since they introduced a Pratnership! No wonder it is endemic!
Brak: "This case highlights the problem of a new generation of drink drivers causing havoc on our roads. We need to get a new way of getting a messages across to these drivers who are under-age, unlicensed and unisnsured."
New way? How about returning to an old way - one which has been tried and tested - and found to be very efficient and effective.
Mary - Luv - we call them POLICEMEN
They used to patrol in police cars and they used to catch bad drivers
They also had a neat trick up their sleeves. They made the roads FEEL safer. Death rates were actually decreasing ... er .. Are they still decreasing? Well, Cumbria's haven't!
The stolen Mondeo was driven at speed in Clifton (understand there is a scam there somewhere) and residents alerted to police - who then pursued it.
So - decline of police, plastic plods, initiatives creating mounds of paperwork for plods, speed cams, politically correct belief that a child can do no evil, poor parenting, poor education on drugs and alcohol abuse ....all would seem to contribute
He stole the car and GMP chased him through Manchester's streets - eventually being copped after mounting the pavement at speed and damaging the wheels.
In court - it emerged that this boy already has an ASBO against him, and beed disqualified from driving twice before
He's only 13 years old.
The case has shocked GMP and Brake as "the law is no detrerrent to these yobs" :
Well, well. Penny drops!
Nor is a scamera to these yobs either - and they are the ones causing the accidents - in the less lucrative spots of course The police: "It is dreadful to think one so young can be involved in such terrible activities!"
Welcome to the real world - being a child does not mean "pure as a new born"
Zoe Stow (Roadpeace): "Hit and runs are endemic in big towns and this is why they run - unlicenced,ovr the limit and uninsured!"
Whose fault Zoe? Your beloved speed cameras are helping create this! Remind me again? Where are traffic police in the areas where speed cams reign? And not seeing as many Plod as I used to on my visits to Manchester! Less since they introduced a Pratnership! No wonder it is endemic!
Brak: "This case highlights the problem of a new generation of drink drivers causing havoc on our roads. We need to get a new way of getting a messages across to these drivers who are under-age, unlicensed and unisnsured."
New way? How about returning to an old way - one which has been tried and tested - and found to be very efficient and effective.
Mary - Luv - we call them POLICEMEN
They used to patrol in police cars
and they used to catch bad drivers They also had a neat trick up their sleeves.
They made the roads FEEL safer. Death rates were actually decreasing ... er .. Are they still decreasing? Well, Cumbria's haven't! The stolen Mondeo was driven at speed in Clifton (understand there is a scam there somewhere) and residents alerted to police - who then pursued it.
So - decline of police, plastic plods, initiatives creating mounds of paperwork for plods, speed cams, politically correct belief that a child can do no evil, poor parenting, poor education on drugs and alcohol abuse ....all would seem to contribute
MM
A plethora of mobile plods would not have stopped this.
Your last line but one hits the name on the head.....poor parenting.
When I was a lad if anything untowards done and likely to bring shame on the family it was either a leather belt or hairbursh across the backside. At school likewise, a visit to the Headmasters study and the cane across the buttocks.
Now the little burghers know they can do anything with impunity and don't they just play on it.
DVD
A plethora of mobile plods would not have stopped this.
Your last line but one hits the name on the head.....poor parenting.
When I was a lad if anything untowards done and likely to bring shame on the family it was either a leather belt or hairbursh across the backside. At school likewise, a visit to the Headmasters study and the cane across the buttocks.
Now the little burghers know they can do anything with impunity and don't they just play on it.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
MM
Your last line but one hits the name on the head.....poor parenting.
DVD
Yep Chav parents breed Chav off-spring, it's only going to get worse. Any attempt by authority to correct the child is seen as an afront by the poorly educated/low self esteemed Chav parent. My wife is a school teacher in a slightly iffy area, and the little blighters come in shouting that they know their rights and that they will get their parents down to the school if anybody dares to punish them in any way. Until parents take more time to speak to their children and stop using the television as an unpaid baby sitter whilst they go to the pub, the Country is going to continue to go to the dogs. My wife tells me it is not unknown for children in her class to be running the streets at midnight during the school week! Where are their parents, and what are the children up to at this time of night? A lot of parents just aren't interested in their children anymore, except when the opportunity arises to use them as a tool to have a go at someone in authority, to boost their own self-importance. The country is going to the dogs. The only way to stop the rot is chemical castration of all Chav's, Now!
OK that last line is a bit tongue in cheek, though hey! why not?
The problem here is the punishment. The kid is outside the scope of the lentilist authorities comprehension. They therefore have no sanctions against him which will work. He needs to be made to understand what No means. The best way is to make him the pre match entertainment at the next game at Old Trafford. 50 lashes should do it, with the threat that 2nd offence Mother and father Join him. Out of the 200 odd people flogged in Manchester in 1861 only one ever offended again.
Naughty boy you are banned from doing that thing it was illegal for you to do in the first place will not work. I think flogging social workers until they understand this might also start to have some real effect. They could all be put to use digging up speed humps and removing cameras for their community service too.
Naughty boy you are banned from doing that thing it was illegal for you to do in the first place will not work. I think flogging social workers until they understand this might also start to have some real effect. They could all be put to use digging up speed humps and removing cameras for their community service too.
What amazes me, is that parents can be fined and imprisoned if their offspring are truanting, but the little sh!ts 'can't be named for legal reasons' when they've commited a crime. Make the parents responsible for all their childs actions and jail them (the parents) when they do commit offences.
Double Play said:
And we can blame the government for poor parenting...
Poor parenting is down to poor education...
Poor education is down to poor government and other social issues...
Bringing up a child is a up to the individual. We bemoan government attempts to intrude into our private lives so it hardly fair to then blame the government for failing to teach scum how not to be scum!
You don't need an education to know right from wrong; you don't need an education to know how to fit into society and respect others.
The culture of blaming others for personal shortfalls has been a symptom of this country for the past 20 years. This permissive "liberal" attitude has been peddled by the left wing middle classes as a "right" and taken up by the apolitical scum bags as a carte blanche to do how they please. Things will get much worse before they get better
Double Play said:
And we can blame the government for poor parenting...
Poor parenting is down to poor education...
Poor education is down to poor government and other social issues...
Not poor education, expectation of reward for little effort. I believe this runs right back to the Thatcher government and the "greed is good" mentatility, to borrow a phrase that was prevalent at the time. Until I married one, I thought teachers were on to a good thing, all those holidays etc etc. However all the teachers I have come into contact with are working during those long holidays and weekends, preparing work for the next term. I see my wife working all the hours God sends preparing work, buying expensive books with our own money (not on expenses either), plus not sleeping at night due to the worry of a looming OFSTED inspection, all to educate these worthless $hit$ can have a better life and can fill in their various claim forms, just to have them throw it back in her face with a snear accompanied by the phrase, "you can't touch me, I'll get my Dad down here" Why does anyone become a teacher?
oldred said:
And we can blame the government for poor parenting...
Poor parenting is down to poor education...
Poor education is down to poor government and other social issues...
Not poor education, expectation of reward for little effort. I believe this runs right back to the Thatcher government and the "greed is good" mentatility, to borrow a phrase that was prevalent at the time. Until I married one, I thought teachers were on to a good thing, all those holidays etc etc. However all the teachers I have come into contact with are working during those long holidays and weekends, preparing work for the next term. I see my wife working all the hours God sends preparing work, buying expensive books with our own money (not on expenses either), plus not sleeping at night due to the worry of a looming OFSTED inspection, all to educate these worthless $hit$ can have a better life and can fill in their various claim forms, just to have them throw it back in her face with a snear accompanied by the phrase, "you can't touch me, I'll get my Dad down here" Why does anyone become a teacher?
This is a society issue. Teachers are victims of what's happened (though I do think some have been a cause of it too, with their modern child-centred attitudes rather than teaching).
In the sixties many people threw off the restraint of law and self-discipline with an "if it feels good do it" mentality. The children of these people were not disciplined and so never learnt self-discipline. We should not be surprised if they do whatever they can get away with.
Ultimately, law and order depends on self-discipline. We might exceed the limit where it's safe but we wouldn't where it isn't. Without self-discipline, law enforcement depends on blanket policing of the letter of the law -- which we can't afford and don't want. Where to next? Do we expect that self-discipline will come back into fashion, when it's not even demonstrated by our leaders? This society is rotting from within, like previous civilisations did.
hmm. My ex was/is a schoolteacher.
Hauled infront of a disciplinary board for....
wait for it..........
using the corner of a hankerchief to get an eyelash out a 7 year old girls eye.
A Parent (not hers) reported her for abuse.
It's also now policy, when a child is throwing a wobbly, to remove the CLASS from the CHILD!!, not the other way round.
Don't even get me started on OFSTED.
Hauled infront of a disciplinary board for....
wait for it..........
using the corner of a hankerchief to get an eyelash out a 7 year old girls eye.
A Parent (not hers) reported her for abuse.
It's also now policy, when a child is throwing a wobbly, to remove the CLASS from the CHILD!!, not the other way round.
Don't even get me started on OFSTED.
VOTE CONSERVATIVE next time...or in the words of the Manic Street Preachers: "your children will be next"Double Play said:Used to agree with that but I know of two sisters - one a complete chav aged 19 - had one miscarriage and now expecting again, living in a one bed housing association flat on benefits, and having anger management therapy to deal with her bad attitude. Her younger sister is a delight - hard working school kid with a pleasant attitude.
Poor education is down to poor government and other social issues...
So how do you explain that one. Same environment, same parents, same opportunities.
Dwight VanDriver said:
MM
A plethora of mobile plods would not have stopped this.
Your last line but one hits the name on the head.....poor parenting.
When I was a lad if anything untowards done and likely to bring shame on the family it was either a leather belt or hairbursh across the backside. At school likewise, a visit to the Headmasters study and the cane across the buttocks.
Now the little burghers know they can do anything with impunity and don't they just play on it.
DVD
Trafpol may not have stopped it, no. However the total absence of Police in general makes people think they can get away with it. And too often they do.
It's a deterrent. If there are actual Policemen about they may not actually catch criminals. Their existence however *might* cause someone to think twice about committing a crime.
BTW you are exactly right about your comment about "impunity".
Tabs said:
What amazes me, is that parents can be fined and imprisoned if their offspring are truanting, but the little sh!ts 'can't be named for legal reasons' when they've commited a crime. Make the parents responsible for all their childs actions and jail them (the parents) when they do commit offences.
Hardly sensible.
How about making "the little sh!ts" responsible ?
Why is this such a bad idea ? I can tell you from personal experience that these "sh!ts" are well aware of what they are doing, and well aware that they can get away with it.
I am not suggesting we return to flogging and hanging at all ; for many cases that simply doesn't work.
But the prevalent view, which is basically that you have no responsibility at ALL until you are 16 and then the law hits you like a fly hitting a windscreen is insane.
Too many have "learnt" that they can do what they want with impunity, and can't unlearn it with predictable results. This is not their fault, it is OURS.
bryan35 said:
hmm. My ex was/is a schoolteacher.
Hauled infront of a disciplinary board for....
wait for it..........
using the corner of a hankerchief to get an eyelash out a 7 year old girls eye.
A Parent (not hers) reported her for abuse.
It's also now policy, when a child is throwing a wobbly, to remove the CLASS from the CHILD!!, not the other way round.
Don't even get me started on OFSTED.
You think it's bad now. In a few years it will be epidemic. No-one will want to teach in the inner cities, let alone work with the most disadvantaged children.
Plod are also responsible for this ; there is an unholy mix of the following :-
(a) People who are believed in all circumstances
(b) Plod desperate for easy convictions
(c) Money available for complainants
(d) No chance of any action if the complainants lie.
What happens - as should be obvious - is that people simply make stuff up, the Police believe them (they will believe almost anything) and in fact tell them what to say, they make a claim, and some poor sods get stuck in jail for nothing.
If you don't believe me, google for Anver Sheikh.
The bloke who was imprisoned for child abuse. Problem was, he wasn't actually there at the time the complainants were. The Police failed to notice this.
And rather than being charged for Perjury, (it has to be a lie !) they are having another go at the poor sod (starts in about a week).
And it *is* the Police. Google for Jonathon Dunning-Davies. Famous for being charged and nearly convicted for child abuse. Police thought that evidence of THREE witnesses who said nothing happened wasn't worth disclosing to the defence. Guess how much action has been taken against the person who made that decision (easy).
autismuk said:
(a) People who are believed in all circumstances
(b) Plod desperate for easy convictions
(c) Money available for complainants
(d) No chance of any action if the complainants lie.
I'm not sure about (b), but I've seen the rest. A friend of mine was accused along the lines you're suggesting. The police were forced to treat the accusation seriously even though there was no evidence, there was a history of the family making up accusations, and nobody really believed them. Fortunately the result was ok but it caused huge pain for months and my friend lost his job (working with children).
When it was finally disproved, was anyone prosecuted for raising a wholly fictitious case? Of course not.
It would have been good if the police had been able to say "don't be so silly" to the original accusation, but I think it's a society issue rather than a police one.
Peter Ward said:
(a) People who are believed in all circumstances
(b) Plod desperate for easy convictions
(c) Money available for complainants
(d) No chance of any action if the complainants lie.
I'm not sure about (b), but I've seen the rest.
(b) follows for several reason when these things reach the scale of Operation Care (Mersey) or Operation Rose (Northumbria), or Bridgeview School (Yorks). So much time and effort (and PR) is ploughed into it that they *have* to get a "result".
Believe me, I know of many cases personally where Plod's behaviour has been so pro-prosecution they verge on collusion with the complainants.
autismuk said:
What amazes me, is that parents can be fined and imprisoned if their offspring are truanting, but the little sh!ts 'can't be named for legal reasons' when they've commited a crime. Make the parents responsible for all their childs actions and jail them (the parents) when they do commit offences.
Hardly sensible.
How about making "the little sh!ts" responsible ?
like a fly hitting a windscreen is insane.
I await to see what punishment is meted out to that little piece of scum that killed a motorist by dropping a car battery off a motorway bridge. Smack on the wrist, "oh dear nobody understands him, it's not his fault"
Dwight VanDriver said:
MM
A plethora of mobile plods would not have stopped this.
Your last line but one hits the name on the head.....poor parenting.
When I was a lad if anything untowards done and likely to bring shame on the family it was either a leather belt or hairbursh across the backside. At school likewise, a visit to the Headmasters study and the cane across the buttocks.
Now the little burghers know they can do anything with impunity and don't they just play on it.
DVD
I agree DVD, I have noticed over the years that since I went to school (I'm 47) things have got worse, the year I left they stopped the punishment and since then things have got worse, I know when I was a teenager I was a little sh1t, but I did know when to draw the line as I had respect for authority.
(BIBs, Teachers, Elders and so on)
Drifting
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