Jammer warning!
Discussion
From UkSpeedtraps website:
December 2004
A friend of mine who has been using a jammer for over 4 years got arrested this week. (Dec 04)
Here is the story of what happened.
At 6 am a police car and a low loader turned up outside his home. He was arrested and the car was loaded on to the low loader. He was taken to the local police station, his car was taken to the police vehicle inspection unit. The jammer was tested to see if it jammed, as you can expect it did. The jammer was removed, 50min job.
In the mean time my friend was questioned and then was charged with "perverting the course of justice". The worrying part is this. He had been seen in one county by a laser camera van that could not get his speed. A few months later he had been seen in another county by a separate safety camera van again it could not get his speed.
This then sparked the event at 6 am .... How you ask..
It has turned out, after speaking to several contacts in the police force, they have had the camera equipment software modified to photograph any vehicle that throw up an error, any error. When the video is checked at the camera units base and an error is reported the event is logged as a warning flag on the PNC database (police database).
When another camera van operator takes his video back to base to check over, if he discovers an error he will check on the PNC database to see if there are any warning flags on that vehicle.
If there are no flags on the PNC for that car then one is added. If the PNC has a flag on it saying they have had a problem in the past they will investigate further. This was the case for my friend and the guy in Northampton
To make matters worse my friend was not speeding on both occasions.
As I have said he was charged and then bailed to reappear. I let you know the outcome in late January.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a chance today to talk to several police forces and the DoT and they can confirm this is what they have all been doing. It is because the DoT wanted to know just how many jammers were in use in the UK. The belief is that there are over a million jammers fitted to cars in the UK. I think this figure is a little high but you never know.
This work has been conducted to gather data prior to the proposed application for a ban in January 2005. If the ban goes through its expected to take effect within 6 months.
The ban will cover, Radar Detectors and Laser jammers. GPS will be safe as they have no intention to ban them.
Wording from the DOT.
Thank you for your email about speed camera detectors.
Excessive or inappropriate speed is a factor in many road accidents. Analysis of casualty statistics in Great Britain has shown excessive speed to be a contributory factor in 28% of all collisions that result in a fatality. It is essential for the safety of all road users that the police can undertake speed enforcement to identify people who speed, in particular in covert operations.
It is for this reason that we propose to prohibit devices that prevent or interfere with this police activity. Clause 17 of the Road Safety Bill gives the Secretary of State the power to prohibit the fitting of, or the use of vehicles carrying, speed assessment equipment detection devices. It defines such devices as a device one or more of whose purposes is to interfere with or detect the operation of equipment used to assess the speed of motor vehicles.
The precise details of which devices would be prohibited will be set out in supplementary secondary legislation. This will be done following full consultation with interested people. It is not intended to prohibit Global Positioning Systems which usefully give drivers information on the location of published camera sites.
Lesley Reed
Road Safety Division
Department For Transport
2/11 Great Minster House
GTN 3533 2452
0207 -944-2452
----------------------------------------------------
So there ya have it.
December 2004
A friend of mine who has been using a jammer for over 4 years got arrested this week. (Dec 04)
Here is the story of what happened.
At 6 am a police car and a low loader turned up outside his home. He was arrested and the car was loaded on to the low loader. He was taken to the local police station, his car was taken to the police vehicle inspection unit. The jammer was tested to see if it jammed, as you can expect it did. The jammer was removed, 50min job.
In the mean time my friend was questioned and then was charged with "perverting the course of justice". The worrying part is this. He had been seen in one county by a laser camera van that could not get his speed. A few months later he had been seen in another county by a separate safety camera van again it could not get his speed.
This then sparked the event at 6 am .... How you ask..
It has turned out, after speaking to several contacts in the police force, they have had the camera equipment software modified to photograph any vehicle that throw up an error, any error. When the video is checked at the camera units base and an error is reported the event is logged as a warning flag on the PNC database (police database).
When another camera van operator takes his video back to base to check over, if he discovers an error he will check on the PNC database to see if there are any warning flags on that vehicle.
If there are no flags on the PNC for that car then one is added. If the PNC has a flag on it saying they have had a problem in the past they will investigate further. This was the case for my friend and the guy in Northampton
To make matters worse my friend was not speeding on both occasions.
As I have said he was charged and then bailed to reappear. I let you know the outcome in late January.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a chance today to talk to several police forces and the DoT and they can confirm this is what they have all been doing. It is because the DoT wanted to know just how many jammers were in use in the UK. The belief is that there are over a million jammers fitted to cars in the UK. I think this figure is a little high but you never know.
This work has been conducted to gather data prior to the proposed application for a ban in January 2005. If the ban goes through its expected to take effect within 6 months.
The ban will cover, Radar Detectors and Laser jammers. GPS will be safe as they have no intention to ban them.
Wording from the DOT.
Thank you for your email about speed camera detectors.
Excessive or inappropriate speed is a factor in many road accidents. Analysis of casualty statistics in Great Britain has shown excessive speed to be a contributory factor in 28% of all collisions that result in a fatality. It is essential for the safety of all road users that the police can undertake speed enforcement to identify people who speed, in particular in covert operations.
It is for this reason that we propose to prohibit devices that prevent or interfere with this police activity. Clause 17 of the Road Safety Bill gives the Secretary of State the power to prohibit the fitting of, or the use of vehicles carrying, speed assessment equipment detection devices. It defines such devices as a device one or more of whose purposes is to interfere with or detect the operation of equipment used to assess the speed of motor vehicles.
The precise details of which devices would be prohibited will be set out in supplementary secondary legislation. This will be done following full consultation with interested people. It is not intended to prohibit Global Positioning Systems which usefully give drivers information on the location of published camera sites.
Lesley Reed
Road Safety Division
Department For Transport
2/11 Great Minster House
GTN 3533 2452
0207 -944-2452
----------------------------------------------------
So there ya have it.
timsta said:
They cannot make "perverting the course of justice" stick if no crime was being commited. In other words, if he wasn't speeding, or they can't prove he was, then what crime was he covering up to commit the "perverting" offence?
I guess they would argue that by interfearing with equipment that the officer was using to stop him from getting a reading regardless of the speed is the perverting the course bit.
Of course when it comes to speeding the law doesnt appear to need a reason to prosecute anymore.
'obstructing a police officer' sould be more likely I would have though.
Can't pervert the course of justice if there isn't one.
you can get errors for all sorts of reasons. usually an operator would try again if he got an error, and by this time the jammer is off and the driver has slowed down?
Can't pervert the course of justice if there isn't one.
you can get errors for all sorts of reasons. usually an operator would try again if he got an error, and by this time the jammer is off and the driver has slowed down?
Still considered to be a definition of PCJ:
When a person acts or embarks on a course of conduct that has a tendency to, and is intended to pervert the course of justice [R v Vreones 1891]
Fitting jammer to prevent Police enforcing traffic law i.e. speeders and also to evade prosecution????
DVD
When a person acts or embarks on a course of conduct that has a tendency to, and is intended to pervert the course of justice [R v Vreones 1891]
Fitting jammer to prevent Police enforcing traffic law i.e. speeders and also to evade prosecution????
DVD
If it's illegal to use a jammer, why are laws being drafted to make them illegal? Ergo, they can't be illegal right now. I would love to see this type of case go to court. No one has yet been prosecuted through the courts for this as yet. I reckon the CPS would fold beforehand, as a loss on their part would set precedent.
If it's PCJ, every mugger who wore a mask would have to be convicted of the same thing surely. A good barrister could certainly have fun with a jammer case
If it's PCJ, every mugger who wore a mask would have to be convicted of the same thing surely. A good barrister could certainly have fun with a jammer case
If you really want to f
k up this jammer detection system: sit at the side of the road, out of site, and ping the laser gun with your 'garage door opener' when the scammer takes the reading. Only ping when vehicles with a certain feature approach (same second letter of VRM, colour, make, whatever) such that you ping every 50 or so vehicles. Go back exactly 1 week later and repeat the process.
Then leave to simmer and wait for the pot to boil over! The scamera partnerships would be foolish to continue.
k up this jammer detection system: sit at the side of the road, out of site, and ping the laser gun with your 'garage door opener' when the scammer takes the reading. Only ping when vehicles with a certain feature approach (same second letter of VRM, colour, make, whatever) such that you ping every 50 or so vehicles. Go back exactly 1 week later and repeat the process. Then leave to simmer and wait for the pot to boil over! The scamera partnerships would be foolish to continue.
DeltaFox said:
From UkSpeedtraps website:
December 2004
A friend of mine who has been using a jammer for over 4 years got arrested this week. (Dec 04)
Here is the story of what happened.
At 6 am a police car and a low loader turned up outside his home. He was arrested and the car was loaded on to the low loader. He was taken to the local police station, his car was taken to the police vehicle inspection unit. The jammer was tested to see if it jammed, as you can expect it did. The jammer was removed, 50min job.
In the mean time my friend was questioned and then was charged with "perverting the course of justice". The worrying part is this. He had been seen in one county by a laser camera van that could not get his speed. A few months later he had been seen in another county by a separate safety camera van again it could not get his speed.
This then sparked the event at 6 am .... How you ask..
It has turned out, after speaking to several contacts in the police force, they have had the camera equipment software modified to photograph any vehicle that throw up an error, any error. When the video is checked at the camera units base and an error is reported the event is logged as a warning flag on the PNC database (police database).
When another camera van operator takes his video back to base to check over, if he discovers an error he will check on the PNC database to see if there are any warning flags on that vehicle.
If there are no flags on the PNC for that car then one is added. If the PNC has a flag on it saying they have had a problem in the past they will investigate further. This was the case for my friend and the guy in Northampton
To make matters worse my friend was not speeding on both occasions.
As I have said he was charged and then bailed to reappear. I let you know the outcome in late January.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have had a chance today to talk to several police forces and the DoT and they can confirm this is what they have all been doing. It is because the DoT wanted to know just how many jammers were in use in the UK. The belief is that there are over a million jammers fitted to cars in the UK. I think this figure is a little high but you never know.
This work has been conducted to gather data prior to the proposed application for a ban in January 2005. If the ban goes through its expected to take effect within 6 months.
The ban will cover, Radar Detectors and Laser jammers. GPS will be safe as they have no intention to ban them.
Wording from the DOT.
Thank you for your email about speed camera detectors.
Excessive or inappropriate speed is a factor in many road accidents. Analysis of casualty statistics in Great Britain has shown excessive speed to be a contributory factor in 28% of all collisions that result in a fatality. It is essential for the safety of all road users that the police can undertake speed enforcement to identify people who speed, in particular in covert operations.
It is for this reason that we propose to prohibit devices that prevent or interfere with this police activity. Clause 17 of the Road Safety Bill gives the Secretary of State the power to prohibit the fitting of, or the use of vehicles carrying, speed assessment equipment detection devices. It defines such devices as a device one or more of whose purposes is to interfere with or detect the operation of equipment used to assess the speed of motor vehicles.
The precise details of which devices would be prohibited will be set out in supplementary secondary legislation. This will be done following full consultation with interested people. It is not intended to prohibit Global Positioning Systems which usefully give drivers information on the location of published camera sites.
Lesley Reed
Road Safety Division
Department For Transport
2/11 Great Minster House
GTN 3533 2452
0207 -944-2452
----------------------------------------------------
So there ya have it.
This is an absolutely outrageous and totally unacceptable abuse of power against a motorist.
The CPS will have to prove that your friend deliberately set out to pervert the course of justice.
You have to understand this is an extremely serious criminal charge, it is NOT a motoring offence.
I find it ever more surprising that the tone and volume of enfocement against non-criminal sections of the community is escalating to the point of insanity.
You're friend MUST fight this, he must seek legal advice from a solicitor with criminal court experience.
My experience is in traffic cases and some civil matters, so I'm afraid I can't really give detailed advice, other than to say that I would retaliate against the police and raise a civil action for damages and wrongful arrest.
This is clearly a form of bullying, and in my experience the only way to deal with a bully is to kick him in the balls so hard he won't come back for more.
You have mail by the way.
IOLAIRE said:
This is an absolutely outrageous and totally unacceptable abuse of power against a motorist.
The CPS will have to prove that your friend deliberately set out to pervert the course of justice.
Harumph. That'll be a doddle. They impounded his car and removed a laser jammer, which they doubtlessly retained. What more proof do the CPS require? Perhaps a written statement? Get real.
IOLAIRE said:
You have to understand this is an extremely serious criminal charge, it is NOT a motoring offence.
Holy Moses. You are phenomenal. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4120737.stm.
The guy in this thread was done for PCJ too.
IOLAIRE said:
I find it ever more surprising that the tone and volume of enfocement against non-criminal sections of the community is escalating to the point of insanity.
Yup. A bit OTT perhaps, but I won't disagree with your sentiment.
IOLAIRE said:
You're friend MUST fight this, he must seek legal advice from a solicitor with criminal court experience.
Would you please STOP telling everyone to fight every bleedin' charge that is posted on this site. Have you learned nothing from the informative posts of Flat in Fifth and Dwight Van Driver? I don't expect you to listed to me as I ain't a policeman, but you really need to tone it down with the advice; most of which is nonsense.
IOLAIRE said:
You have mail by the way.
That'll be junk mail then.
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