How NOT to pay cowboy parking companies.

[golfdsg]

Last Wednesday I was parked at university for around 30 minutes as I had popped in to sort something out.
I had parked on a permit holder bay where I received a parking fine (from a private firm).

Now this was a all university private property but the university has nothing to do with the parking fine.

As far as my research goes, people have been advising to just bin the ticket as it holds no real authority to demand payment and it is simply like an invoice for services. I have also gathered that as there was no financial loss to any parties, university or parking cowboys, they cant fine me? Im not too sure about that though.

Could anyone advise me how to NOT pay this fine. I understand I shouldn't have parked there but it didn't cause anyone harm and it wasn't for a long time.
It's just these cowboys that go round slapping tickets to windscreens demanding payment.

• just need to wait now for the "you shouldn't have parked there in the first place" brigade

[beanbag]

golfdsg said:

Last Wednesday I was parked at university for around 30 minutes as I had popped in to sort something out.
I had parked on a permit holder bay where I received a parking fine (from a private firm).

Now this was a all university private property but the university has nothing to do with the parking fine.

As far as my research goes, people have been advising to just bin the ticket as it holds no real authority to demand payment and it is simply like an invoice for services. I have also gathered that as there was no financial loss to any parties, university or parking cowboys, they cant fine me? Im not too sure about that though.

Could anyone advise me how to NOT pay this fine. I understand I shouldn't have parked there but it didn't cause anyone harm and it wasn't for a long time.
It's just these cowboys that go round slapping tickets to windscreens demanding payment.

• just need to wait now for the "you shouldn't have parked there in the first place" brigade

Were there signs indicating you shouldn't have parked there and were the penalty notices clearly visible?

If so, then what do you expect?

Following your logic, you might as well park in a disabled bay as you didn't notice it caused anyone any harm. The number of times I've had to tell morons to move out of the way of a disabled bay for my father-in-law who needs them just pisses me off.

If all the necessary signs were in place and you were aware you shouldn't have been in the place, there's nothing stupid about saying you shouldn't have been there. Park in permitted areas like everyone else and pay the fine.

[SeanyD]

If it's a council or police fine, pay it. Any other company bin it, just expect 6 months of increasingly threatening letters followed by nothing.

[xRIEx]

golfdsg said:

I understand I shouldn't have parked there

If you can't do the time...

[Conscript]

It's not a fine, only a speculative invoice, and I imagine a ridiculously punitive one at that, given the offence committed.

For them to get any money out of you, they are going to have to take you to court and prove that their "fine" is a fair representation of losses incurred by the landowner.

You shouldn't really have parked in the space knowing it was for permit holders only, but these private parking companies have no power to take exorbitant amounts from you for doing so. Seek advice from the Pepipoo or MoneySuperMarket forums.

[23rdian]

I've ignored a couple recently. So far so good.

[allergictocheese]

SeanyD said:

If it's a council or police fine, pay it. Any other company bin it, just expect 6 months of increasingly threatening letters followed by nothing.

Suggesting these should be binned or ignored is poor and out of date advice.

The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 allows private parking companies in certain circumstances to hold the Registered Keeper liable as if they had been the driver.

There are people popping up on internet fora asking how to remove County Court Judgments (CCJs) after parking companies have successfully obtained judgments against them without their knowledge, because they kept binning the paperwork.

If you have valid grounds as to why you should not pay, you need to go through the parking company's appeal process, then whatever independent appeal process they are signed up to. If after you have exhausted that process you are still unhappy, you may have to fight you way through small claims court.

Of course, you might notch it down to experience and accept you parked where you weren't welcome, and pay the penalty.

[Conscript]

allergictocheese said:

Suggesting these should be binned or ignored is poor and out of date advice.

The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 allows private parking companies in certain circumstances to hold the Registered Keeper liable as if they had been the driver.

There are people popping up on internet fora asking how to remove County Court Judgments (CCJs) after parking companies have successfully obtained judgments against them without their knowledge, because they kept binning the paperwork.

If you have valid grounds as to why you should not pay, you need to go through the parking company's appeal process, then whatever independent appeal process they are signed up to. If after you have exhausted that process you are still unhappy, you may have to fight you way through small claims court.

Of course, you might notch it down to experience and accept you parked where you weren't welcome, and pay the penalty.

Although you are correct in that they can now hold the RK liable for the charge, it doesn't really mean alot; they still have very little power to take money from you without going to court. The only thing that's changed is that it's now harder to get rid of them sending you endless demands for payment by saying "dunno who was driving, sorry".

It's very unlikely that it would get as far as small claims court. And even if it did, the parking company can only claim for losses incurred by the landowner, which they would have to prove and justify in court. I'm going to hazard a guess and guess and say there's no way they'd be able to do this, so they are never going to do more than threaten him with court action in an attempt to scare him into paying.

UI'd say take advice on pepipoo/fightback forums/parkingcowboys.co.uk on how to appeal.

[allergictocheese]

Parking Eye, for example, have lodged hundreds if not thousands of small claims this year. As such, suggesting that it's unlikely to be pursued if ignored is terrible advice.

[Challo]

allergictocheese said:

SeanyD said:

If it's a council or police fine, pay it. Any other company bin it, just expect 6 months of increasingly threatening letters followed by nothing.

Suggesting these should be binned or ignored is poor and out of date advice.

The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 allows private parking companies in certain circumstances to hold the Registered Keeper liable as if they had been the driver.

There are people popping up on internet fora asking how to remove County Court Judgments (CCJs) after parking companies have successfully obtained judgments against them without their knowledge, because they kept binning the paperwork.

If you have valid grounds as to why you should not pay, you need to go through the parking company's appeal process, then whatever independent appeal process they are signed up to. If after you have exhausted that process you are still unhappy, you may have to fight you way through small claims court.

Of course, you might notch it down to experience and accept you parked where you weren't welcome, and pay the penalty.

I tend to agree with this as I thought the government had tightened up the private parking companies with how they can clamp or give cars tickets but i wouldn't put my house on it. You need to do some further investigation.

I presume the Uni had to bring these 'Cowboys' to monitor parking as they had lots of people similar to yourself taking the ps and parking in places where they shouldnt for 30mins as they wont be long and it doesn't matter.

[paintman]

Simplest way not to have to pay a ticket is not to park there in the first place.
Having got that out of the way, there are umpteen threads on this subject & you'll find - as said - that some are asking how to overturn a CCJ against them having ignored/binned the notice.
Here's a couple for you to start - I would suggest you pay particular attention to those who are actually legally qualified:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
This is a CCJ one:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Have fun

[anonymous-user]

Or, just write asserting that the charge is an unenforceable penalty. The advice given on those websites over complicates things, and takes some silly points. They may mean well, but they suffer from barrack room lawyering.

[Conscript]

allergictocheese said:

Parking Eye, for example, have lodged hundreds if not thousands of small claims this year. As such, suggesting that it's unlikely to be pursued if ignored is terrible advice.

I did not advise him to ignore anything. I suggested the opposite - to appeal.

I simply said that it is unlikely to be pursued if ignored, and this is still true. You're right, Parking Eye are quite litigious, and have lodged many claims. But most parking companies are not. But even so, defending ones self in court against such claims should be relatively easy.

Also, what proportion of those claims by Parking Eye have been taken all the way and settled in court in their favour? It's still very hard for a parking company to prove how a £100 charge (for example) is a fair estimate of their losses incurred by someone parking in a permit only bay for 30 minutes or so.

Some very useful info here:
http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/parking-eye/

Edited by Conscript on Monday 8th December 11:44

[aw51 121565]

allergictocheese said:

Parking Eye, for example, have lodged hundreds if not thousands of small claims this year. As such, suggesting that it's unlikely to be pursued if ignored is terrible advice.

What if the court case refers to an event some years back (pre-POFA2012), the defendant has moved since then and any mail redirect has expired?

Many if not all of these cases began as "fishing trips" and due to the above scenario they will be undefended as defendant is unaware... People then apply for credit or a mortgage, find a CCJ and so on and so forth.

Strongly agree, "ignore" is not valid advice nowadays (and hasn't been valid for nigh on 2 years now) . These claims are fairly easy to see off with the right advice and proper arguments made; Parking Eye will often withdraw when a robust defence is presented...

[grumpyscot]

allergictocheese said:

The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 allows private parking companies in certain circumstances to hold the Registered Keeper liable as if they had been the driver.

Except in Scotland, where the Act doesn't apply, so your are under no legal obligation to divulge who the driver was - and only the driver can be taken to court (in Scotland) and even then can only be sued for any loss the company incurred - one space available throughout and they cannot claim for losses!

Now, if only people in England could get their elected MPs to do something similar....................

[golfdsg]

Ok but even if they do take me to court, they'll have to prove the fine of £95 was a reasonable charge for 30 minutes right?

[anonymous-user]

To be precise, the issue is whether the charge is a genuine pre estimate of loss. If it is not, it is unenforceable as a penalty. On that basis only proven loss can be recovered. Often no loss can be proven.

[Chrisgr31]

You know it would be very handy if all these people who believe rules in private car parks dont apply to them. We could then park in their drives and/or car parking spaces and see if their attitude then changed!

[PurpleMoonlight]

There are a lot of sociopaths about ...

[stevensdrs]

The wife got an overstay of 14 minutes in a free car park invoice from Parking Eye last week, they want £85.00 or £50.00 if paid within 2 weeks. Happily we live in Scotland and the car park is in Scotland so they can whistle for it. I expect the usual barrage of threatening letters which we will bin. No way the charge could ever be considered a reasonable estimate of loss in a free car park.