NIP

[pvapour]

Does anyone know if the 14 day notification applies to date sent or date received? as the xmas post delays have meant mine has been delivered outside this limit.


Thanks

fingers X

[dazren]

Sent.

DAZ

[pvapour]

Thx

[dazren]

Just noticed you've sold the black M5. The new Maser looks stunning.

dAZ

[BliarOut]

Not necessarily....

before giving in to a tax demand, post dates here or take a trip over to www.pepipoo.com always excellent advice over there.

[kevinday]

AFAIK it must be posted with reasonable expectation of being received within the 14(+1) days. If it was posted on the 13th day and that day was the 22nd December then you could argue that it is out of time.

[pvapour]

BliarOut said:

Not necessarily.... before giving in to a tax demand, post dates here or take a trip over to www.pepipoo.com always excellent advice over there.

Thx Bliarout but it I think Dazren is indeed right (unfortunately) on this one, I'll just have to bite t he bullet I think, I have got away with quite alot for some time now thx too Neo, but it failed me on this occasion for some reason, new mobile units?.....

Daz - M5 had to go, 88k miles FBMWSH and more smoke out the exhaust than off the tyres at a drift event! this is the 2nd BMW owned that has left me underwhelmed by build quality, still kwik, despite 007 atributes as I think you know (tho not showing in ur profile)

Masser is quicker & sounds better = I'm lurrrrvin it....

[DeMolay]

dazren said:

Sent. DAZ

Incorrect.

The NIP has to be sent in such time through the normal course of post so that it can reach it's intended recipient within 14 days from the date of the alleged offence. If it is posted in such times as it cannot be received (i.e. on day 14, or on day 13 before a bank holiday etc) then there is a legitimate case for challenging it.

When was it received, and what is the date on the envelope (if it has one), and what is the date on the NIP?

>> Edited by DeMolay on Wednesday 5th January 16:27

[pvapour]

DeMolay said:

dazren said: Sent. DAZ Incorrect. The NIP has to be sent in such time through the normal course of post so that it can reach it's intended recipient within 14 days from the date of the alleged offence. If it is posted in such times as it cannot be received (i.e. on day 14, or on day 13 before a bank holiday etc) then there is a legitimate case for challenging it. When was it received, and what is the date on the envelope (if it has one), and what is the date on the NIP? >> Edited by DeMolay on Wednesday 5th January 16:27

committed: 13/12/04
sent: 20/12/04
received: 04/01/05 fek me, it's a year later!

[DeMolay]

Then get yourself over to www.pepipoo.com/NewForums2/index.php for some considered advice.

Sounds like you have a very good case.

[pvapour]

DeMolay said:

Then get yourself over to www.pepipoo.com/NewForums2/index.php for some considered advice. Sounds like you have a very good case.

Thx DeMolay, just posted (after firewall wrangles)

[Dwight VanDriver]

DeMolay said:

. Sounds like you have a very good case.

????

NOIP sent out by 7th day for delivery in normal course of post.

Sec 1 (2) RT Offenders Act 1988 ...... any other reason not received by him. (Doesn't say within 14 days).

NOIP deemed to have been served within 14 days providing it was posted within 14 days of the commission of the offence even if ,in fact, the notice was not received by him in 14 days (Groome v Driscoll [1969]

Section 7 The Interpretation Act 1978...unless the contrary is proved, service to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. PO promises 1st Class post delivery next day which is why Second class post without any promise is not used and taboo.

SCP will prove they sent out in time for it to be delivered within 14 days but for whatever reason in system beyond them it was received out of time.

Now if it had been sent out on the 13th day that would be another matter.

DVD


.


>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 6th January 08:17

[gcmillwood]

Don't forget - this was sent out over the Christmas period with all of the associated post delays. It was sent on the 20th and by my calculations needed to arrive by the 27th to be in time, so 7 days available. Of those 7 days, 2 were weekends and 2 were bank holidays. "In the ordinary course of post" I would not necessarilly expect such a letter to arrive in time over Christmas.

[DeMolay]

DwightVanDriver said:

NOIP sent out by 7th day for delivery in normal course of post.

Not quite. You are assuming the date it was sent out was the 20th. This may not be the case (and it isn't 100% clear from pvapour's post). Althought the date on the NIP may have been the 20th, that is not to say it was sent out that day. No point in quibbling over that point until it is clarified. If it is the date on the NIP that is the 20th then pvapour may have some slack to play with :

gcmillwood said:

Don't forget - this was sent out over the Christmas period with all of the associated post delays. It was sent on the 20th and by my calculations needed to arrive by the 27th to be in time, so 7 days available. Of those 7 days, 2 were weekends and 2 were bank holidays. "In the ordinary course of post" I would not necessarilly expect such a letter to arrive in time over Christmas.

Precisely. And this assumes it was sent out on that day (20th) too. pvapour will need to confirm the envelope date.

DwightVanDriver said:

NOIP deemed to have been served within 14 days providing it was posted within 14 days of the commission of the offence even if ,in fact, the notice was not received by him in 14 days (Groome v Driscoll [1969]

I take your point, but Nicholson v Tapp (1972) 116 S.J. 527 (where it was decided that a notice was deemed improperly served if it is posted in such time as it could not reach the recipient within 14 days through the normal course of posting) may be your ally here. I agree it may be a bridge too far, but I would certainly be inclined to write to the rozzers with a fancy letter, stating that the NIP is time expired. You could always ask the question. Better to get it dropped now than to run the risk in court.

DwightVanDriver said:

Section 7 The Interpretation Act 1978...unless the contrary is proved, service to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post. PO promises 1st Class post delivery next day which is why Second class post without any promise is not used and taboo. SCP will prove they sent out in time for it to be delivered within 14 days but for whatever reason in system beyond them it was received out of time. Now if it had been sent out on the 13th day that would be another matter. DVD

You make your point well, but I believe there is certainly mileage in questioning when the NIP was actually issued. If the envelope shows something like the 22nd or even the 23rd, then pvapour's case just got a whole lot stronger. It is not unknown for the rozzers to hold on to a NIP for an extra day or two....

[Dwight VanDriver]

Take your point DM and I would support your contention that nothing ventured nothing gained.

However at Conditional offer stage SCP are not obliged to enter into legal argument and the matter is one that has to aired at Court. Of course this does not preclude SCP from disengaging if there is an out and out procedural fault with the NOIP.

DVD

[Nasta]

My boss is just going through the same process at the mo'.

Flashed by Fixed camera on the 17/12/04, but not had anything through yet. He has already had the fine from straying over the congestion charge line (£50).

Is he likely to get a ticket ?

It was 62 in a 40.

[Dwight VanDriver]

NOIP should have been sent out for receipt by last day 31st.

Boss? Indicative Company Car in which case NOIP should have been sent to Reginald KEEPER - his firm as opposed to him as a named individual - unless he is the named keeper.

Watch those envelopes in the In Tray and note class of postage and date stamps.

DVD

[Nasta]

Dwight VanDriver said:

NOIP should have been sent out for receipt by last day 31st. Boss? Indicative Company Car in which case NOIP should have been sent to Reginald KEEPER - his firm as opposed to him as a named individual - unless he is the named keeper. Watch those envelopes in the In Tray and note class of postage and date stamps. DVD

Thanks for the reply DVD.

It is a company car, but he is the Co-owner of the company, so he opens the post.