Extra powers for HATOs
Discussion
For information.
From today Jan 6 2005 Highways Agency Traffic Officers (HATOs) operating in the Midlands on M6(part) M54, M42, M40 (part), M5 (part) and M50 will gain extra powers amongst which are.......
Powers to stop.
Powers to direct traffic.
Powers to work in live traffic lanes. (To be honest I thought they already had this, learn something new every day.)
Failure to comply with a legitimate order from HATOs will result in the driver receiving a penalty up to £1000.
I offer this news to keep PHers informed, my views on this are known and no further comment offered.
Where is that hanky.... sniff sniff
FiF
From today Jan 6 2005 Highways Agency Traffic Officers (HATOs) operating in the Midlands on M6(part) M54, M42, M40 (part), M5 (part) and M50 will gain extra powers amongst which are.......
Powers to stop.
Powers to direct traffic.
Powers to work in live traffic lanes. (To be honest I thought they already had this, learn something new every day.)
Failure to comply with a legitimate order from HATOs will result in the driver receiving a penalty up to £1000.
I offer this news to keep PHers informed, my views on this are known and no further comment offered.
Where is that hanky.... sniff sniff
FiF
It's policing on the cheap...I agree...
But while we're lacking police numbers etc.....where they really matter....
I'm all for HATO's and such like....who actually want to do the job and can sit with a smashed vehicle etc...while the traffic police do proper policing...
One area where civilians really come into their own assisting the police is motorways. When I have to deal with a bump on the motorway, the highways agency always attend...roughly about the time I do....the have many more cones/lights etc than I do and more importantly can set up their truck with the big yellow flashing arrow and the 'crash cushion' behind...thus protectin me and the people involved in the original collision...
I can't see a fault, I really can't...
But while we're lacking police numbers etc.....where they really matter....
I'm all for HATO's and such like....who actually want to do the job and can sit with a smashed vehicle etc...while the traffic police do proper policing...
One area where civilians really come into their own assisting the police is motorways. When I have to deal with a bump on the motorway, the highways agency always attend...roughly about the time I do....the have many more cones/lights etc than I do and more importantly can set up their truck with the big yellow flashing arrow and the 'crash cushion' behind...thus protectin me and the people involved in the original collision...
I can't see a fault, I really can't...
Roadcop said:
One area where civilians really come into their own assisting the police is motorways. When I have to deal with a bump on the motorway, the highways agency always attend...roughly about the time I do....the have many more cones/lights etc than I do and more importantly can set up their truck with the big yellow flashing arrow and the 'crash cushion' behind...thus protectin me and the people involved in the original collision...
I can't see a fault, I really can't...
But these are not HATOs, these are the guys who do help as you say, emergency repairs to barriers if possible, pushing a broom to clear up glass, extra pairs of hands for towing and tugging to provide a clear path, put out cones etc and so on.
HATOs different kettle of fish entirely.
Roadcop said:
It's policing on the cheap...I agree...
But while we're lacking police numbers etc.....where they really matter....
My point is that if we are short of TrafPol then we should recruit and pay for the correct people for the job. If we were short of teachers or nurses we wouldn't accept some half baked version of the real thing just because "numbers are short." Similarly I don't want to be detained for up to half an hour (for now) by some jumped up civilian with an over-inflated sense of importance because he's been given a luminous jacket and a radio.
Roadcop said:
I can't see a fault I really cant...
Just wait...
Flat in Fifth said:
For information.
From today Jan 6 2005 Highways Agency Traffic Officers (HATOs) operating in the Midlands on M6(part) M54, M42, M40 (part), M5 (part) and M50 will gain extra powers amongst which are.......
Powers to stop.
FiF
Why are the powers these people have regionalised?..
They've been stopping people on the M62 for a quite a while now, or are these a different set of people?
Do I have to stop for them ONLY when I'm driving in these specific areas?
I can't remember this being overly publicised, is there a mention of their powers in the latest Highway Code?
I'm confused.... Can anyone clarify exactly what powers these people have?... Please
wolves_wanderer said:
It's policing on the cheap...I agree...
But while we're lacking police numbers etc.....where they really matter....
My point is that if we are short of TrafPol then we should recruit and pay for the correct people for the job. If we were short of teachers or nurses we wouldn't accept some half baked version of the real thing just because "numbers are short."
Roadcop said:
I can't see a fault I really cant...
Just wait...
Yes you do. The teachers are replaced for "short periods" by Teaching Assistants - not in quite the same way but often used as fill ins. In nursing there are large numbers of agency nurses who don't actually know the work patterns ; also non-qualified people.
wolves_wanderer said:
My point is that if we are short of TrafPol then we should recruit and pay for the correct people for the job. If we were short of teachers or nurses we wouldn't accept some half baked version of the real thing just because "numbers are short." Similarly I don't want to be detained for up to half an hour (for now) by some jumped up civilian with an over-inflated sense of importance because he's been given a luminous jacket and a radio.
I agree....
But can you see that years of complaints about "Why aren't the police out catching real criminals instead of stopping my car".....has now backfired...?
Flat in Fifth said:
From today Jan 6 2005 Highways Agency Traffic Officers (HATOs) operating in the Midlands on M6(part) M54, M42, M40 (part), M5 (part) and M50 will gain extra powers amongst which are.......
Are these the guys in Range Rovers that look like plodmobiles? What can they stop you for? Speeding?
Stepej
Authority and powers for HATO's outlined at Traffic Management Act 2004 Part I
www.tinyurl.com/4hetg
They became operational April time last year starting on the M6 brum area and under a rolling programme are to cover all motorways as and when combined cotrol centers are set up.
Whats the betting in a couple of years time they will have power to report speeders????
DVD
Authority and powers for HATO's outlined at Traffic Management Act 2004 Part I
www.tinyurl.com/4hetg
They became operational April time last year starting on the M6 brum area and under a rolling programme are to cover all motorways as and when combined cotrol centers are set up.
Whats the betting in a couple of years time they will have power to report speeders????
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
Stepej
Authority and powers for HATO's outlined at Traffic Management Act 2004 Part I
www.tinyurl.com/4hetg
They became operational April time last year starting on the M6 brum area and under a rolling programme are to cover all motorways as and when combined cotrol centers are set up.
Whats the betting in a couple of years time they will have power to report speeders????
DVD
Thanks DVD, a little light reading for bedtime then !..
Roadcop said:
Are these the guys in Range Rovers that look like plodmobiles? What can they stop you for? Speeding?
Yes to your first question. No to the second one.
They can stop you, but it will be to conduct safety checks, ie: HGVs; also direction of traffic at collisions etc.
Cheers for that RC. Came across one the other night somewhere round Birmingham. Not my usual area and was wondering who they were.
Ripton:
Just to give you an idea of the sort of silliness which goes on...... allegedly.
Heavy artic breaks down a short distance down the road from a motorway junction, but not on a road subject to motorway regulations. Vehicle not well positioned and not that well lit, but basically all that is needed is someone to sort out signs, some cones and babysit until recovery have arrived and done their stuff.
Sitting at the services next to the junction is a HATO unit. Would make sense to deploy them to deal with the task leaving plod elsewhere to do "proper policing."
Yeah right! "Sorry mate, not my job, HATOs motorway only"
So proper plod has to be taken away from proper policing elsewhere to babysit the broken down heavy, driving past the entrance to the services where you know who was sitting.
Meanwhile chummy in the HATO Range Rover makes himself scarce and tries to look busy by sitting up on one of the observation platforms down the motorway a piece.
Yes running a double crewed HATO unit is cheaper than a double crewed traffic unit, but I reckon not a lot cheaper when its all boiled down to how big a bang for your buck.
Now if that is a sensible use of my tax dollars then my name is Henk van Nederlander. Of course others may strongly disagree as is their perfect right.
[wooden spoon mode]
Be interesting to see if the cost information is available under FoI Act ??
[/wooden spoon mode]
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 6th January 18:57
Just to give you an idea of the sort of silliness which goes on...... allegedly.
Heavy artic breaks down a short distance down the road from a motorway junction, but not on a road subject to motorway regulations. Vehicle not well positioned and not that well lit, but basically all that is needed is someone to sort out signs, some cones and babysit until recovery have arrived and done their stuff.
Sitting at the services next to the junction is a HATO unit. Would make sense to deploy them to deal with the task leaving plod elsewhere to do "proper policing."
Yeah right! "Sorry mate, not my job, HATOs motorway only"
So proper plod has to be taken away from proper policing elsewhere to babysit the broken down heavy, driving past the entrance to the services where you know who was sitting.
Meanwhile chummy in the HATO Range Rover makes himself scarce and tries to look busy by sitting up on one of the observation platforms down the motorway a piece.
Yes running a double crewed HATO unit is cheaper than a double crewed traffic unit, but I reckon not a lot cheaper when its all boiled down to how big a bang for your buck.
Now if that is a sensible use of my tax dollars then my name is Henk van Nederlander. Of course others may strongly disagree as is their perfect right.
[wooden spoon mode]
Be interesting to see if the cost information is available under FoI Act ??
[/wooden spoon mode]
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 6th January 18:57
wolves_wanderer said:
It's similar to the extra powers they are giving "Community Support Officers" (how unexpected that was as well) Policing on the cheap? Surely not.
Warwickshire CC has stated that CSOs will not be getting the extra powers here. He says they're better doing proactive visible patrolling, and have apparently been responsible for crime reductions.
I wonder whether using real police in the same way would have the same effect? It seems odd nobody tried it....
In 2005 Britain, where police can't go around clipping the micreant youths...actual bobby on the beat stuff is only Biscuit Tin pictures...
There isn't a real detterant, as "criminals" will go where the walking BiB isn't.
There is just too much area for a foot bobby to properly patrol.
Now, if dealing with anti-social behaviour and dealing with it properly was allowed, then increased foot patrols would be very effective. Without the back up of the law and the 'system' however, it's pointless.
Pro-actively stopping vehicles used by criminals is the key. Also adequate powers and less red tape to conduct house warrants is also required.
There isn't a real detterant, as "criminals" will go where the walking BiB isn't.
There is just too much area for a foot bobby to properly patrol.
Now, if dealing with anti-social behaviour and dealing with it properly was allowed, then increased foot patrols would be very effective. Without the back up of the law and the 'system' however, it's pointless.
Pro-actively stopping vehicles used by criminals is the key. Also adequate powers and less red tape to conduct house warrants is also required.
Saw an interesting thing on the M6 last week.
Two cars broken down on the hard shoulder, being "shepherded" by (I think) HATOs. They'd got a small forest of cones out around the two cars and their b/w liveried Rangies were positioned one behind each broken down car, strobes flashing away.
The bad bit - the entire m'way stopped to look and congestion was backing for miles.
The good bit - the people in the cars will have been VERY safe - only a blind sloth on tamazepam would have missed them.
Given that there were two cars, it could have been a shunt that the HATOs had sorted, but there didn't seem to be much damage.
I guess when drivers get used to the HATOs there'll be fewer tailbacks. But this one seemed to work well. And if it frees up trafpol to do proper trafpol work, so much the better. Never seen the point in putting a Class 1 in charge of a shovel and a broom.
Two cars broken down on the hard shoulder, being "shepherded" by (I think) HATOs. They'd got a small forest of cones out around the two cars and their b/w liveried Rangies were positioned one behind each broken down car, strobes flashing away.
The bad bit - the entire m'way stopped to look and congestion was backing for miles.
The good bit - the people in the cars will have been VERY safe - only a blind sloth on tamazepam would have missed them.
Given that there were two cars, it could have been a shunt that the HATOs had sorted, but there didn't seem to be much damage.
I guess when drivers get used to the HATOs there'll be fewer tailbacks. But this one seemed to work well. And if it frees up trafpol to do proper trafpol work, so much the better. Never seen the point in putting a Class 1 in charge of a shovel and a broom.
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