Non-driven car in car park

[mcgandalf]

Couple of questions:

Do I need to insure a car that I leave, unused, in a (free) public/council-owned car park?

How about if it's SORNed - can I park it there?

How about a private (office) car park for which I have a permit?

I imagine 'no' to public and 'yes' to private?

[Ganglandboss]

Public - no.
Private - depends.

You can legally declare a vehicle SORN and keep it on a private car park owned by somebody else, but you may find there is a condition prohibiting you from parking untaxed vehicles there. Managing agents of residential premises don't want shagged out heaps with flat tyres and green stuff on the paintwork making the place unsightly, and commercial property managers don't like businesses using common car parking spaces and service roads becoming an extension of an individual business for vehicle storage, so it tends to be a standard clause in many leases / parking permits. This would be a civil matter though.

Also bear in mind you will need to have insurance in place on private land if it is accessible to the public.

[Aretnap]

The car must have at least third party insurance if it's kept on a road or other public place - which means a place to which the general public have access, regardless of ownership. This applies whether or not it's taxed/SORNed.

However it only needs to be taxed if it's kept on a road which is maintained at public expense.

[agtlaw]

Your company car park is unlikely to be a "road or other public place" - but impossible to advise without seeing it.

[BertBert]

agtlaw said:

Your company car park is unlikely to be a "road or other public place" - but impossible to advise without seeing it.

That's interesting, what makes the difference?
Bert

[Ganglandboss]

BertBert said:

agtlaw said:

Your company car park is unlikely to be a "road or other public place" - but impossible to advise without seeing it.

That's interesting, what makes the difference?
Bert

Potentially a number of things, however, a fenced and gated compound or an underground car park is clearly not open to the public, so you could park whatever you wanted (with the owner's permission) without requiring insurance.

Some offices though are on multi-tenure business parks (for example) with parking bays alongside a service road with public access. The land may be privately owned with permit controlled parking, but may still be open to the public for access to other businesses or because of a public right of way.

[LoonR1]

BertBert said:

agtlaw said:

Your company car park is unlikely to be a "road or other public place" - but impossible to advise without seeing it.

That's interesting, what makes the difference?
Bert

At a guess, I'd say a small office with a few private parking spaces and potentially gated off is definitely private, but a wide open space on a Business Park shared with several other business, or several 100+ employees could be tricky, especially if leased rather than owned.

I'm in the process of moving and my van will be stored on the industrial estate where I've got my bikes stashed too. It's pretty well open to the public for 12 hours a day 6 days a week, outside those hours it's gated and locked. My guess is that the unit is "private" the parking area outside the unit is private too, but the access road and the free for all parking spaces would be classed as public.

I'd like to link the site, as it'd be a good discussion point, but the bikes being stored there does set my paranoia off.

[andburg]

LoonR1 said:

I'm in the process of moving and my van will be stored on the industrial estate where I've got my bikes stashed too. It's pretty well open to the public for 12 hours a day 6 days a week, outside those hours it's gated and locked. My guess is that the unit is "private" the parking area outside the unit is private too, but the access road and the free for all parking spaces would be classed as public.

I'd think the open for parking area outside is public.

The unit itself is private as you wholly control access to it and its entrance is not shared. The open area outside once past the initial estate entrance gate which is open to the public during the day would be public as there is no further physical restriction. If someone enters to visit another unit they can freely get into your "private" parking area.

my 2c anyway

[LoonR1]

It's an interesting one though, although moot as its staying taxed and insured. Similar to the Op's question I guess, just a bit more specific.

[andburg]

yeah i think the OP's case is much clearer cut.

its a 100% public car park, so the vehicle needs to be insured at the very least.
I'd suggest it also needs to be taxed as any public access area is deemed a highway from posts by the more knowledgeable

[agtlaw]

BertBert said:

That's interesting, what makes the difference?
Bert

The issue is not whether the public has access but whether in fact the public made use of that access. Spence (1999) - car park used by employees, customers and other business visitors. High Court - not a "road or other public place". Plenty of similar cases. It comes down to whether there is a "special class" of visitors. E.g. Havell (1993) - community centre car park - High Court says not a "road or other public place."

[PAULJ5555]

Now only a few weeks ago people on here people were saying that a public car park is a public highway but NOT if your parked in a bay.

[LoonR1]

PAULJ5555 said:

Now only a few weeks ago people on here people were saying that a public car park is a public highway but NOT if your parked in a bay.

Good point

[agtlaw]

LoonR1 said:

PAULJ5555 said:

Now only a few weeks ago people on here people were saying that a public car park is a public highway but NOT if your parked in a bay.

Good point

I wasn't.

[LoonR1]

agtlaw said:

LoonR1 said:

PAULJ5555 said:

Now only a few weeks ago people on here people were saying that a public car park is a public highway but NOT if your parked in a bay.

Good point

I wasn't.

Didn't say you were, just that its a good point and people were saying similar. I'm quite intrigued about the industrial estate where I'll be keeping the van, but only insofar as it'll be an interesting discussion it's staying taxed and insured.

[MJG280]

Aretnap said:

The car must have at least third party insurance if it's kept on a road or other public place - which means a place to which the general public have access, regardless of ownership. This applies whether or not it's taxed/SORNed.

However it only needs to be taxed if it's kept on a road which is maintained at public expense.

And land maintained at public expense includes even private car parks owned by central government or Councils even if gated.

[Heaveho]

I'd be interested to know what would happen if a vehicle that wasn't insured, whether publicly or privately parked, developed an electrical fault, caught fire, and wiped out the nearest building?

[allergictocheese]

Heaveho said:

I'd be interested to know what would happen if a vehicle that wasn't insured, whether publicly or privately parked, developed an electrical fault, caught fire, and wiped out the nearest building?

Unless you could prove the person who left the car there was negligent, the insurer of that nearest building would be carrying the can.

[Heaveho]

allergictocheese said:

Unless you could prove the person who left the car there was negligent, the insurer of that nearest building would be carrying the can.

You'd think, therefore, that the owner might be expected, not unreasonably, to make sure the vehicle had at least the minimum of cover. If it didn't, and it was my building affected, I'd expect my insurer to pursue that course of action?

[LoonR1]

Heaveho said:

You'd think, therefore, that the owner might be expected, not unreasonably, to make sure the vehicle had at least the minimum of cover. If it didn't, and it was my building affected, I'd expect my insurer to pursue that course of action?

What course of action? The car was uninsured, so even if the owner was negligent what are you going to pursue? Good money, after bad.