Rape - the definition
Discussion
Somewhat of a sensitive subject, I know.
A mate of mine has just been found guilty of rape, sentence to be confirmed. The story goes as such...
Pulls a bird on a night out, they were getting off in a club (CCTV confirms). Went and got a taxi back to his place, getting off outside the taxi rank (CCTV confirms again). Gets in a taxi and takes her back to his house. They're both fairly pissed but crack on and get the deed done. Next morning she's gone, he thinks nothing more of it. Police come knocking that afternoon and arrest him for rape.
He's a pretty decent bloke and says he was fairly open with the police that they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
Court last week and found guilty by majority verdict.
It seems the traditional one night stand now requires a signed document of some sort from both parties.
I'm gutted for him, looking around it seems to be a 5 year sentence.
A mate of mine has just been found guilty of rape, sentence to be confirmed. The story goes as such...
Pulls a bird on a night out, they were getting off in a club (CCTV confirms). Went and got a taxi back to his place, getting off outside the taxi rank (CCTV confirms again). Gets in a taxi and takes her back to his house. They're both fairly pissed but crack on and get the deed done. Next morning she's gone, he thinks nothing more of it. Police come knocking that afternoon and arrest him for rape.
He's a pretty decent bloke and says he was fairly open with the police that they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
Court last week and found guilty by majority verdict.
It seems the traditional one night stand now requires a signed document of some sort from both parties.
I'm gutted for him, looking around it seems to be a 5 year sentence.
I'm sorry for your friend's situation AC123 said:
Somewhat of a sensitive subject, I know.
they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
It's not that he can't prove otherwise, it's that he doesn't know either way. If she recalls saying no and he can't recall that she didn't, the assumption must be she said no. they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
Don't have sex if one or both of you are so drunk there are "blurry moments". Women that are that drunk cannot give informed consent, and men who are that drunk can't recall if consent was even given.
its only going to get worse - basically if u pull a drunk bird now you're pretty much gonna be charged with rape if she so wished - what this guy writes is pretty much correct despite the daily mail protestations:
http://news.sky.com/story/1423128/outrage-over-bar...
http://news.sky.com/story/1423128/outrage-over-bar...
Your mate is going to be one of many, it is going to take a while for the pendulum to swing back the other way a bit.
Far too dangerous a political hot potato for any of the spineless politicians to even approach. No one knows what happened in that case, I suspect even them, but as you describe, not rape in my book.
Far too dangerous a political hot potato for any of the spineless politicians to even approach. No one knows what happened in that case, I suspect even them, but as you describe, not rape in my book.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
AC123 said:
Somewhat of a sensitive subject, I know.
they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
It's not that he can't prove otherwise, it's that he doesn't know either way. If she recalls saying no and he can't recall that she didn't, the assumption must be she said no. they were both drunk, and that there were some blurry moments. She says she told him to stop in one of those blurry moments, he can't prove otherwise.
Don't have sex if one or both of you are so drunk there are "blurry moments". Women that are that drunk cannot give informed consent, and men who are that drunk can't recall if consent was even given.
Dixy said:
Your mate is going to be one of many, it is going to take a while for the pendulum to swing back the other way a bit.
Far too dangerous a political hot potato for any of the spineless politicians to even approach. No one knows what happened in that case, I suspect even them, but as you describe, not rape in my book.
Why isn't it rape in your book. If person A says something happened, and person B doesn't know either way, one must assumed it happened. In this case, there's no reason at all to think she isn't telling the truth. Even he isn't able to say she's lying, and he was there. So she said NO, and he carried on and had sex with her anyway. Why isn't that rape? Far too dangerous a political hot potato for any of the spineless politicians to even approach. No one knows what happened in that case, I suspect even them, but as you describe, not rape in my book.
My question is when I see rape cases and both people drunk is...
Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
Nobody heavily under the influence of alchohol goes somewhere quiet to have a conversation at say 3am.
If you wanted to get to know somebody better but not have sex you'd say give me your number and i'll get in touch with you tomorrow or in a few days time.
I just don't understand why somebody would go back to somebodies place without having sex on their mind.
Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
Nobody heavily under the influence of alchohol goes somewhere quiet to have a conversation at say 3am.
If you wanted to get to know somebody better but not have sex you'd say give me your number and i'll get in touch with you tomorrow or in a few days time.
I just don't understand why somebody would go back to somebodies place without having sex on their mind.
OP were you at the courtroom to hear all of the evidence?
I know you hear some pretty shocking tales on the internet these days but at face value I'd struggle to see how "I'm sure I said no even though I was pissed" matches up with "Beyond reasonable doubt".
Just wondering if there are two sides and you have one whilst the court had both?
I know you hear some pretty shocking tales on the internet these days but at face value I'd struggle to see how "I'm sure I said no even though I was pissed" matches up with "Beyond reasonable doubt".
Just wondering if there are two sides and you have one whilst the court had both?
There but for the grace of god...............
Back in the day I once pulled a bird at a party, although it was very much with mutual consent, and we willingly went back to my place
We were both sober and clean of drugs
The next morning she tells me its all been a massive mistake, she'd just split from her boyfriend etc etc etc and what was I doing?
Eeeek - major panic attack time from me
Nothing became of it and I never saw her again
Ive always been very, very careful since then
Sympathy's to your mate - assuming hes innocent!
BlackST said:
My question is when I see rape cases and both people drunk is...
Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
Undoubtedly so, but doesn't either party have the right to change their mind later on?Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
peter tdci said:
BlackST said:
My question is when I see rape cases and both people drunk is...
Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
Undoubtedly so, but doesn't either party have the right to change their mind later on?Why would the female leave a club and get into a taxi and go to a house/hotel/private place with a male other than to have sex?
I guess we don't see these things being investigated.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: OP were you at the courtroom to hear all of the evidence?
This is the key. Either ten or eleven out of twelve impartial strangers, who WERE there and listening intently, believed that he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.Can a very, very drunk person give consent?
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual...
I think going forward, if there's any doubt in your head that she might not be sober enough to consent or know what she's doing or may regret it once sober (i.e wouldn't have done it sober) then best not to do the deed.
Failing that, don#t initiate any moves. I'm pretty sure no man would get done for rape if a woman was the one making all the moves and climbing on top, no matter how drunk she is.
Failing that, don#t initiate any moves. I'm pretty sure no man would get done for rape if a woman was the one making all the moves and climbing on top, no matter how drunk she is.
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