Issue with a Landlord / Estate Agent
Discussion
On behalf of my sister, dont worry im not that cursed!
The story goes:
Burst water pipe in the rear garden, contacted estate agent and they sent someone out, from a water company. The guy from said company said its private piping, and he comes out regularly to this property every so often and keeps advising them to get the water works insured. Anyway he goes away and they bring in a builder, long story cut short it takes two weeks to fix and the foundations of the house are sat in water for about 2 weeks.
Since this the house has developed massive dampness, im talking next level sh!t! She approached the Estate Agent and was told by the guy that "if you dont like it to move out." She asked to speak to the female from the Agents and told her that she would hold rent until the issue was fixed, they both came out within a few hours to the property.
The male was a grumpy git just advised her to ring environmental health if she had an issue. The female agreed it wasnt normal and contacted a damp specialist due for today (weds 18th). The house walls have moisture running down them, there are massive mould patches everywhere and even things like shoes on the floor and picture frames are going mouldy - its certainly something ive never seen to this extent, you can physcially wipe the moisture off the walls. The agents left after booking the damp specialist.
My sister did ring environmental health and they came out with some equipment, probed and prodded the walls and found that 2 walls to the house are between 60-90% damp and should be 20% or less. So obviously a problem.
My sister got a phone call yesterday from the Estate Agents stating they had cancelled the damp specialist, they sent them pictures and they thought it was "condensation."
She is a very awkward position, she has 3 children, 2, 4 and 6, and is a single parent whilst working full time - and doesnt really have time to deal with this, there has always been mould in the house but she has been cleaning it. She feels there is no other option but to clean all the mould and keep doing so, even though the walls have moisture running down them!
Over the past few weeks the house has been empty and children living with their nan and me whilst they tried to air the house. A massive de-humidifier is being used constantly and the windows are all open when shes home and its not making a difference.
Personally, i think the Agents contacted the Landlord and they dont want to fork out to have the walls all re-plastered and the damp treated etc. Why would the damp specialist even be interested in pictures if they have a visit booked? and surely they are a business so would not turn away trade.
The youngest child also has bad athsma and recurrent chest infections which environmental health said would not be helped by the houses current state.
So my questions really are:
- Is there any legality around mould / dampness in a rented property?
- What would be the next steps?
The story goes:
Burst water pipe in the rear garden, contacted estate agent and they sent someone out, from a water company. The guy from said company said its private piping, and he comes out regularly to this property every so often and keeps advising them to get the water works insured. Anyway he goes away and they bring in a builder, long story cut short it takes two weeks to fix and the foundations of the house are sat in water for about 2 weeks.
Since this the house has developed massive dampness, im talking next level sh!t! She approached the Estate Agent and was told by the guy that "if you dont like it to move out." She asked to speak to the female from the Agents and told her that she would hold rent until the issue was fixed, they both came out within a few hours to the property.
The male was a grumpy git just advised her to ring environmental health if she had an issue. The female agreed it wasnt normal and contacted a damp specialist due for today (weds 18th). The house walls have moisture running down them, there are massive mould patches everywhere and even things like shoes on the floor and picture frames are going mouldy - its certainly something ive never seen to this extent, you can physcially wipe the moisture off the walls. The agents left after booking the damp specialist.
My sister did ring environmental health and they came out with some equipment, probed and prodded the walls and found that 2 walls to the house are between 60-90% damp and should be 20% or less. So obviously a problem.
My sister got a phone call yesterday from the Estate Agents stating they had cancelled the damp specialist, they sent them pictures and they thought it was "condensation."
She is a very awkward position, she has 3 children, 2, 4 and 6, and is a single parent whilst working full time - and doesnt really have time to deal with this, there has always been mould in the house but she has been cleaning it. She feels there is no other option but to clean all the mould and keep doing so, even though the walls have moisture running down them!
Over the past few weeks the house has been empty and children living with their nan and me whilst they tried to air the house. A massive de-humidifier is being used constantly and the windows are all open when shes home and its not making a difference.
Personally, i think the Agents contacted the Landlord and they dont want to fork out to have the walls all re-plastered and the damp treated etc. Why would the damp specialist even be interested in pictures if they have a visit booked? and surely they are a business so would not turn away trade.
The youngest child also has bad athsma and recurrent chest infections which environmental health said would not be helped by the houses current state.
So my questions really are:
- Is there any legality around mould / dampness in a rented property?
- What would be the next steps?
Palmers said:
- Is there any legality around mould / dampness in a rented property?
Kind of. The house needs to be fit to live in if it is rented.Palmers said:
- What would be the next steps?
Talk to the CAB or shelter. They are both very very good with housing issues. It does sound about par for the course for agents. Lord knows how damp specialists can diagnose that it is condensation from a picture. A good company will turn down business if it truly is condensation as their is nothing they can do, but I would expect them to come out and check.Edited by SteveSteveson on Wednesday 18th February 10:54
If the house is as bad as your description, then the house is not fit for habitation and the landlord should pay for alternative accommodation while remedial work is carried out.
Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
TooMany2cvs said:
Move.
Sorry, but it really is the most sensible step for her.
I wholeheartedly agree, but its not that simple im afraid, she is under a domestic violence protection thingy, and has specialist stuff on the house for that reason.Sorry, but it really is the most sensible step for her.
She has applied for a mortgage in a new estate near us but obviously things aren't that quick, and then there is the issue of the deposit.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I had similar a few years back but wanted to move out...one trick which worked for me was a DD chargeback, got all the rent that I'd paid to date back and all (but processed the chargeback after if got my full deposit back) = unfit for purpose, not what was agreed etc. bank accepted the argument eventually.
The agent protested as I took money from them (I'd been trying to get the cash they'd overcharged back as well as damages for mould destroyed property but they told me to chase the landlord, the total of overcharging and possession damage (conveniently...) totalled the full rent and tenancy fees I'd ever paid by DD
I had similar a few years back but wanted to move out...one trick which worked for me was a DD chargeback, got all the rent that I'd paid to date back and all (but processed the chargeback after if got my full deposit back) = unfit for purpose, not what was agreed etc. bank accepted the argument eventually.
The agent protested as I took money from them (I'd been trying to get the cash they'd overcharged back as well as damages for mould destroyed property but they told me to chase the landlord, the total of overcharging and possession damage (conveniently...) totalled the full rent and tenancy fees I'd ever paid by DD
Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 18th February 11:07
Palmers said:
My sister did ring environmental health and they came out with some equipment, probed and prodded the walls and found that 2 walls to the house are between 60-90% damp and should be 20% or less. So obviously a problem.
Over the past few weeks the house has been empty and children living with their nan and me whilst they tried to air the house. A massive de-humidifier is being used constantly and the windows are all open when shes home and its not making a difference.
The youngest child also has bad athsma and recurrent chest infections which environmental health said would not be helped by the houses current state.
So my questions really are:
- Is there any legality around mould / dampness in a rented property?
- What would be the next steps?
I've edited to show the most pertinent parts.Over the past few weeks the house has been empty and children living with their nan and me whilst they tried to air the house. A massive de-humidifier is being used constantly and the windows are all open when shes home and its not making a difference.
The youngest child also has bad athsma and recurrent chest infections which environmental health said would not be helped by the houses current state.
So my questions really are:
- Is there any legality around mould / dampness in a rented property?
- What would be the next steps?
It will take months to dry that property out. Months.
Are they in a fixed term tenancy?
Next step is to go back to the council. Environmental Health again. They are hot on 'slum landlords' and although this property might not be the type, his actions are similar.
If the property is inhabitable, then it just is. The problem is withholding rent is a tricky scenario. I assisted my brother in law in a similar situation, in the end he moved with the estate agent waiving all fees to get him to a new place. Everything he had was mouldy. In 24 hours his shoes would have mould on and his sheets were permanently damp.
The strongest scenario is that she could claim the property inhabitable, and sue for costs for moving, but that would be a ballsy move. Bottom line is though, if she doesn't like it she needs to be ready to move.
I would definitely suggest taking some professional advice.
I understand everyone has the best intentions on the threads to do with lettings issues, but 80% of the answers i've seen in my short time on this forum have been misinformed - the wrong information is not what you want in a situation like this.
The world of lettings and the law surrounding it is very murky, and unfortunately not the easiest to understand. I am sure there will be a defined process to follow given your circumstances, and it will most likely give the result you need but you need to be professionally advised in the way to approach the matter.
Here is a good place to start to get a basic understanding -
https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/your-rights-and...
Some specific advice and steps from CAB here
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/faq_...
And more specific here...
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/hous...
Good luck!
I understand everyone has the best intentions on the threads to do with lettings issues, but 80% of the answers i've seen in my short time on this forum have been misinformed - the wrong information is not what you want in a situation like this.
The world of lettings and the law surrounding it is very murky, and unfortunately not the easiest to understand. I am sure there will be a defined process to follow given your circumstances, and it will most likely give the result you need but you need to be professionally advised in the way to approach the matter.
Here is a good place to start to get a basic understanding -
https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/your-rights-and...
Some specific advice and steps from CAB here
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/faq_...
And more specific here...
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/housing_w/hous...
Good luck!
Inkyfingers said:
If the house is as bad as your description, then the house is not fit for habitation and the landlord should pay for alternative accommodation while remedial work is carried out.
Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
Just to be clear if she stops paying rent she is in breach, at no point has the op said if tenancy is assured of periodic? I wouldnt advise that!Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
If you stop paying it and it is reported to credit reference agency or court action is taken I am told this can effect ability to obtain a morgage.
FrankAbagnale said:
I would definitely suggest taking some professional advice.
I understand everyone has the best intentions on the threads to do with lettings issues, but 80% of the answers i've seen in my short time on this forum have been misinformed - the wrong information is not what you want in a situation like this.
Well, quite.I understand everyone has the best intentions on the threads to do with lettings issues, but 80% of the answers i've seen in my short time on this forum have been misinformed - the wrong information is not what you want in a situation like this.
FrankAbagnale said:
I missed where they said the property was in Wales? Heck of a long drive for the mother to see the kids, staying in Peterboghorror with the OP, if it is.OP - Shelter's website is a very good resource. But moving really is the most sensible option. Put the time and energy into getting the anti-DV gubbins shifted.
TooMany2cvs said:
I missed where they said the property was in Wales? Heck of a long drive for the mother to see the kids, staying in Peterboghorror with the OP, if it is.
OP - Shelter's website is a very good resource. But moving really is the most sensible option. Put the time and energy into getting the anti-DV gubbins shifted.
Ha, yes in my hasty reply I did indeed include the wales link. A perfect example of incorrect advice on forums... OP - Shelter's website is a very good resource. But moving really is the most sensible option. Put the time and energy into getting the anti-DV gubbins shifted.
Better Link!
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/housing_e/ho...
Environmental health can issue an enforcement notice to a private landlord - though it is done on a scoring system for habitation conditions, damp is a high scorer.
Sadly, enforcement notices take time and with a disinterested estate agent and a bad landlord, the resolution could be long and protracted.
Keep on at EH, and in parallel look to move, would be my advice.
Sadly, enforcement notices take time and with a disinterested estate agent and a bad landlord, the resolution could be long and protracted.
Keep on at EH, and in parallel look to move, would be my advice.
Vaud said:
Environmental health can issue an enforcement notice to a private landlord - though it is done on a scoring system for habitation conditions, damp is a high scorer.
Sadly, enforcement notices take time and with a disinterested estate agent and a bad landlord, the resolution could be long and protracted.
Keep on at EH, and in parallel look to move, would be my advice.
^^^^agree, the local Council's Environmental Health Office is the first port of call, and upon their visiting the rental property, should be able to determine whether the damp is either rising, ingress or condensation, and as the above poster stated, if need be can issue an enforcement notice on the landlord.Sadly, enforcement notices take time and with a disinterested estate agent and a bad landlord, the resolution could be long and protracted.
Keep on at EH, and in parallel look to move, would be my advice.
With young children being involved, the OP's sister should consider immediate rehousing, and that with the support of the EH and taking photographic evidence of the damp , should see a full refund of any Deposit monies.
Sounds to me like lifestyle if the walls are running wet, excessive moisture in the air, lack of ventilation, drying clothes indoors, non vented tumble dryer, extractor fans switched off etc.
I see it all the time, 95% of what I encounter is not due to any kind of building defect, just people not understanding how to circulate air and open windows.
What I usually tell my tenants is that I'll get a survey done by a professional organisation and if they find in favour of me then the tenant will be picking up the tab, you can't be fairer than that.
I see it all the time, 95% of what I encounter is not due to any kind of building defect, just people not understanding how to circulate air and open windows.
What I usually tell my tenants is that I'll get a survey done by a professional organisation and if they find in favour of me then the tenant will be picking up the tab, you can't be fairer than that.
Palmers said:
A massive de-humidifier is being used constantly and the windows are all open when shes home and its not making a difference.
After having been there, done this. This is wrong and you wont dry the walls / house out at all (or not too notice)To dehumidify well, All windows and doors closed, heating on. empty tray regularly.
With windows open your allowing cool, damp air back in the house, especially this time of year. If the moisture is on the walls like you say the humidifier will of done barely anything im afraid if you keep opening the windows. If shes drying clothes in the house stop that for a period of time as well, doing that alone with poor ventilation can cause mold on ceilings. hope that helps at least get the damp under control. From what you've said you'll be looking at a few weeks to even suck a lot of it out.
jbsportstech said:
Inkyfingers said:
If the house is as bad as your description, then the house is not fit for habitation and the landlord should pay for alternative accommodation while remedial work is carried out.
Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
Just to be clear if she stops paying rent she is in breach, at no point has the op said if tenancy is assured of periodic? I wouldnt advise that!Sadly, in reality, there are some landlords who refuse to understand the responsibilities they have when they rent their houses out. The reality is that they are actually losing more money by not getting it fixed, as if not dealt with, it will make the house significantly less valuable.
If I were her, I would try and speak to the landlord directly, see if they can appeal to their sense of decency (the agent doesn't appear to have any). I would also go to the CAB and the local council and get their advice.
Never thought i'd say this, but if i were in her shoes,I think i'd also stop paying rent, as that's likely to focus their attention. I would also be looking for somewhere else to live.
I'm a landlord but unfortunately. i'm not strictly sure of the rules on this, as frankly, it's not a situation I would ever allow to happen.
If you stop paying it and it is reported to credit reference agency or court action is taken I am told this can effect ability to obtain a morgage.
[quote=CoinSl0t]Sounds to me like lifestyle if the walls are running wet, excessive moisture in the air, lack of ventilation, drying clothes indoors, non vented tumble dryer, extractor fans switched off etc.
I see it all the time, 95% of what I encounter is not due to any kind of building defect, just people not understanding how to circulate air and open windows.
What I usually tell my tenants is that I'll get a survey done by a professional organisation and if they find in favour of me then the tenant will be picking up the tab, you can't be fairer than that.
[/quot
May not apply in the OP's case, and no assumption should be made until an on site inspection has been made. Although I do agree with you that "modern living" double glazing, central heating, washing machine, showers, tumble dryer, cooking, lack of ventilation, out all day to work, creates a lot of condensation/damp issues.
I am presently improving a late 1930's house, single brick walls, with mould issues under lounge and main bedroom windows, with old plaster being removed and replaced with thermal plasterboard.
I see it all the time, 95% of what I encounter is not due to any kind of building defect, just people not understanding how to circulate air and open windows.
What I usually tell my tenants is that I'll get a survey done by a professional organisation and if they find in favour of me then the tenant will be picking up the tab, you can't be fairer than that.
[/quot
May not apply in the OP's case, and no assumption should be made until an on site inspection has been made. Although I do agree with you that "modern living" double glazing, central heating, washing machine, showers, tumble dryer, cooking, lack of ventilation, out all day to work, creates a lot of condensation/damp issues.
I am presently improving a late 1930's house, single brick walls, with mould issues under lounge and main bedroom windows, with old plaster being removed and replaced with thermal plasterboard.
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