Two NIPS arrive on one day!!!!
Discussion
So yesterday I open my saturday post and nice Kent have sent me two NIPS two hours apart for a speed camera which is perhaps a mile from my house.
The only problem is letter postmarked 14-1-05, the NIPs are dated 14-1-05 on the actual letter, and both NIPs relate to 73 and 74 mph past a 60 camera on 24-10-4.
Even more interesting is that I would never speed past this camera as it is very well known to me.
On closer inspection I also notice this is nearly a month before I bought the car!! I quickly check the logbook which shows the change of ownership on 27-11-04, and I have a signed bill of sale from the guy I bought it from dated 19-11-04.
The guy I bought it from advertised as a dealer and was selling the car for the previous owner.
Now to me this raises a few interesting points. Anyone want to comment as to what they think I should do??
The only problem is letter postmarked 14-1-05, the NIPs are dated 14-1-05 on the actual letter, and both NIPs relate to 73 and 74 mph past a 60 camera on 24-10-4.
Even more interesting is that I would never speed past this camera as it is very well known to me.
On closer inspection I also notice this is nearly a month before I bought the car!! I quickly check the logbook which shows the change of ownership on 27-11-04, and I have a signed bill of sale from the guy I bought it from dated 19-11-04.
The guy I bought it from advertised as a dealer and was selling the car for the previous owner.
Now to me this raises a few interesting points. Anyone want to comment as to what they think I should do??
So the car was snapped during test drives just prior to you buying it? NIP has obviously bounced around a bit and since failing to pin it on anyone else,as yet, they're trying to pin it on you?
In any event: Send the NIP back stating that you cannot know who the driver was because at the time of the offence you did not own the car and was not its registered keeper. Tell them who you bought it off.
End of story.
In any event: Send the NIP back stating that you cannot know who the driver was because at the time of the offence you did not own the car and was not its registered keeper. Tell them who you bought it off.
End of story.
Well, thats a nice range of replies. I assume the letter may have been sent to the owner on the logbook first.
That automatically means it would have been later than fourteen days before they sent me mine. So I assume this makes the one to me invalid although obviously it can't because otherwise they would never be able to get the NIP to a new owner in this situation. So the fourteen day rule doesn't apply in this case? So contrary to the advice you sometimes see on here does that mean the fourteen day rule never really applies?
They sent it to me some month after the names were changed on the logbook for an offence committed one month before I officially took ownership of the car. Did the Kent ticket agency send to the previous owner, and then when he denied it they waited until someone else signed the logbook before they tried to prosecute. If so thats a rather flimsy attempt to get a prosecution.
Or did it go to the previous owner, who named the dealer, and then one go to the dealer who's effectively then named me as someone who took a test drive, and named me as the guilty party, despite the fact that his dates are badly skewed, as I test drove the car only two days before I bought it?
That automatically means it would have been later than fourteen days before they sent me mine. So I assume this makes the one to me invalid although obviously it can't because otherwise they would never be able to get the NIP to a new owner in this situation. So the fourteen day rule doesn't apply in this case? So contrary to the advice you sometimes see on here does that mean the fourteen day rule never really applies?
They sent it to me some month after the names were changed on the logbook for an offence committed one month before I officially took ownership of the car. Did the Kent ticket agency send to the previous owner, and then when he denied it they waited until someone else signed the logbook before they tried to prosecute. If so thats a rather flimsy attempt to get a prosecution.
Or did it go to the previous owner, who named the dealer, and then one go to the dealer who's effectively then named me as someone who took a test drive, and named me as the guilty party, despite the fact that his dates are badly skewed, as I test drove the car only two days before I bought it?
Very likely the dealer is trying to avoid any problems for his mate, so just named you, knowing full well you would successfully deny it, and hoping the Cops will give up and drop it as the admin costs will outwiegh the return if they chase it round the houses.
Just do what you thought of doing in the first place, including a photocopy of the v5 and bill of sale.
Just do what you thought of doing in the first place, including a photocopy of the v5 and bill of sale.
My initial dilema was that I find it distasteful to name names and would rather be obstructive because I believe that the majority of cameras are simple taxation, and don't want to be responsible for helping them.
So I was going to return it simply saying I didn't own the car then without naming the dealer. rather as suggested by tallman.
However, call me suspicious, but I doubt the kent ticket authority waited for someone to send to the DVLA with a new owner before trying to pin him with a speeding ticket that was a month before he owned the car.
So I suspect the dealer may have named me, which means I no longer feel the need to be obtuse. Or am I grossly overthinking this?
P.S. All gone quiet on the fourteen day validity of the NIP?
So I was going to return it simply saying I didn't own the car then without naming the dealer. rather as suggested by tallman.
However, call me suspicious, but I doubt the kent ticket authority waited for someone to send to the DVLA with a new owner before trying to pin him with a speeding ticket that was a month before he owned the car.
So I suspect the dealer may have named me, which means I no longer feel the need to be obtuse. Or am I grossly overthinking this?
P.S. All gone quiet on the fourteen day validity of the NIP?
Just watch out for them trying to tax you through the S172 route. Does the NIP have an "I don't know who was driving" section? If so, fill it in and include your copy of the V5 & receipt sent recorded delivery! with an explanation of why you can't name the driver.
You owe nothing to the garage or the original owner, as they would have recieved the original NIP and they have fingered you!
The scammers can be barstewards and it's an offence not to fill in the NIP if necessary.
What the original owner might be trying to do is time expire the offence. The scammers only have six months to lay papers before court before the offence times out and he may be trying the paperchase escape
You owe nothing to the garage or the original owner, as they would have recieved the original NIP and they have fingered you!
The scammers can be barstewards and it's an offence not to fill in the NIP if necessary.
What the original owner might be trying to do is time expire the offence. The scammers only have six months to lay papers before court before the offence times out and he may be trying the paperchase escape
Julian64 said:
They sent it to me some month after the names were changed on the logbook for an offence committed one month before I officially took ownership of the car. Did the Kent ticket agency send to the previous owner, and then when he denied it they waited until someone else signed the logbook before they tried to prosecute. If so thats a rather flimsy attempt to get a prosecution.
It's outrageous that they don't check this stuff - just shows it's all about the money don't know if you could get costs & damages etc if it went to court but someone ought to get their arse kicked over this.
They're only too happy to do a motorist for PCJ when the shoes on the other foot.
Julian64 said:I think only the original NIP needs to be served within 14 days? In the same way that (if it were a company car) the company would have to get the NIP within 14 days. They'd then name the user of the car, who would be sent a second NIP.
P.S. All gone quiet on the fourteen day validity of the NIP?
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.
Dan
DanL said:
P.S. All gone quiet on the fourteen day validity of the NIP?
I think only the original NIP needs to be served within 14 days? In the same way that (if it were a company car) the company would have to get the NIP within 14 days. They'd then name the user of the car, who would be sent a second NIP.
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.
Dan
You are correct
My advice would be to return the NIPs with a covering letter stating the facts as you describe them here (viewed car on x date, bought on y date, both of which are after the alledged offence therefore you have no knowledge of who was driving at that time).
As advised above, best bet is to send it back with a covering letter and copy of the V5 to explain that you didn't own the car at the time.
However, perhaps the garage in question has consulted its records and decided that, in fact, you were test driving at the time(s) of the alleged offence(s) and so have fingered you as the culprit?
Even if this is actually the case (which of course it isn't), it would seem a bit difficult to prove. Could you prove you were elsewhere at the time(s) in question?
However, perhaps the garage in question has consulted its records and decided that, in fact, you were test driving at the time(s) of the alleged offence(s) and so have fingered you as the culprit?
Even if this is actually the case (which of course it isn't
), it would seem a bit difficult to prove. Could you prove you were elsewhere at the time(s) in question?Julian64 said:
P.S. All gone quiet on the fourteen day validity of the NIP?
As mentioned it only applies to the first letter they send to the registered keeper (even if it was returned for whatever reason).
There should be a box that says "I was not the registered keeper at the time of the alleged offence...", if not then write a letter explaining the situation, and include photocopied of the sales invoice.
Gareth
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