SOGA on a 5yo car

[Bullett]

My Skoda has gone pop, the engine failed due to a fault with the cam chain tensioner which is a life of the engine part, not on the service schedule. Skoda want £6.5k to replace the engine. This is a well documented failure with a Skoda/VAG TPI (technical bulletin) and the engine, make, model and nature of failure all fit exactly with other known instances of the failure. Skoda have replaced engines at various contribution levels when this has been the case in the past.

My understanding is that SOGA applies up to 6 years in this case and I will need an independent assessment of the problem to take this to court.

If I win the ideal result is Skoda replace the engine and off I go. They have made good which is what I want. So far their position is to tell me to get lost. No contribution is available. I have gone to the dealer, customer services and now I have written to the head man.

My big issue is that this is all taking along time and an Indie can rebuilt this next week for £2.5k. I need my car and I need the indie to do the report on the failure anyway if this has to go legal.

If I told the indie to do the rebuild and then go on and win a case will Skoda pay my bill or do they have to make good or do the repair themselves? I do recall that on the new car rejection threads the dealer must be given a chance to put things right. Do I have any claim on expenses incurred over and above my repair costs (stuff like recovery, diagnosis etc.)

[PurpleMoonlight]

Mileage?

Service history?

You wont win if you sue them for the cost of a new engine, you may win if you sue for the cost of the repair to the current one.

[ging84]

get them to confirm in writing they are not willing to repair or contribute to the cost if they have not done so already, then you can take it elsewhere to get you back on the road, and if you do successfully take them to court, they cannot claim you didn't give them the opportunity to put it right

[Bullett]

65k
It's been serviced on schedule but outside the network.

Skoda are the people saying it needs a new engine not me. I'm happy with a running car/repaired engine but that was really my question. Can I get it repaired then go after them for the cash or do I have to let them 'make good' or whatever the technical term is to fit inside SOGA. If the Skoda answer is new engine then that is their choice.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Bullett said:

65k

Skoda are the people saying it needs a new engine not me. I'm happy with a running car/repaired engine but that was really my question. Can I get it repaired then go after them for the cash or do I have to let them 'make good' or whatever the technical term is to fit inside SOGA. If the Skoda answer is new engine then that is their choice.

You need to give them the opportunity to repair or replace. If they refuse both then you an tell them you will get it repaired and sue them for the cost.

You might win, you might not, but the costs to try at relatively low.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Don't forget you are suing the dealer you purchased it from, not the manufacturer.

[Butter Face]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Bullett said:

65k

Skoda are the people saying it needs a new engine not me. I'm happy with a running car/repaired engine but that was really my question. Can I get it repaired then go after them for the cash or do I have to let them 'make good' or whatever the technical term is to fit inside SOGA. If the Skoda answer is new engine then that is their choice.

You need to give them the opportunity to repair or replace. If they refuse both then you an tell them you will get it repaired and sue them for the cost.

You might win, you might not, but the costs to try at relatively low.

You mean if he had just bought it, if he hasn't just bought it then none of the above makes any sense?

It's outside of warranty, you haven't had it services at Skoda, they have no legal obligation to fix it for free or even contribute. If you have been to the dealer and they don't help, call customer services, if they won't help then you haven't really got much else to do except try and take them to court over it.

You would have to prove the failure was from a part that is inherently faulty and not from 65,000 miles of use/non dealer servicing/abuse/wrong oil etc etc.

[Derek Smith]

Butter Face said:

You mean if he had just bought it, if he hasn't just bought it then none of the above makes any sense?

It's outside of warranty, you haven't had it services at Skoda, they have no legal obligation to fix it for free or even contribute. If you have been to the dealer and they don't help, call customer services, if they won't help then you haven't really got much else to do except try and take them to court over it.

You would have to prove the failure was from a part that is inherently faulty and not from 65,000 miles of use/non dealer servicing/abuse/wrong oil etc etc.

I'm not sure that having your car serviced outside of the dealer network negates any claim. My understanding is that the EU did away with such restrictions.

[Butter Face]

Derek Smith said:

Butter Face said:

You mean if he had just bought it, if he hasn't just bought it then none of the above makes any sense?

It's outside of warranty, you haven't had it services at Skoda, they have no legal obligation to fix it for free or even contribute. If you have been to the dealer and they don't help, call customer services, if they won't help then you haven't really got much else to do except try and take them to court over it.

You would have to prove the failure was from a part that is inherently faulty and not from 65,000 miles of use/non dealer servicing/abuse/wrong oil etc etc.

I'm not sure that having your car serviced outside of the dealer network negates any claim. My understanding is that the EU did away with such restrictions.

Under a warranty you are correct, outside of that you are down to 'goodwill' which most manufacturers will only give to people who have had multiple vehicles/full dealer service history.

Unless you can prove he fault is a design issue with the car and that involves hard work.

[andymc]

where is this 6 year period for SOGA

[ging84]

andymc said:

where is this 6 year period for SOGA

there is no time limit for SOGA
There is a 6 year time limit on which you can make a claim for damages for breach of contract in most cases. And ultimately that is what a claim under the sale of goods act is, a claim for breaching one of the statutory provisions of a sales contract.

[Bullett]

Butter Face said:

It's outside of warranty, you haven't had it services at Skoda, they have no legal obligation to fix it for free or even contribute.

Understood.

Butter Face said:

If you have been to the dealer and they don't help, call customer services, if they won't help then you haven't really got much else to do except try and take them to court over it.

It's been taken the the dealer, they have said 'no goodwill' I've then been on to Customer services and I'm now in the process of looking for a specialist to confirm the issue.

Butter Face said:

You would have to prove the failure was from a part that is inherently faulty and not from 65,000 miles of use/non dealer servicing/abuse/wrong oil etc etc.

Yup, this is the issue. It is a known issue with the cam chain tensioner in these cars, there is technical documentation in the vag system on how to determine if this is the actual problem. The cam chain/tensioner is a life of the engine part. It's not on the service schedule.

[Butter Face]

Has the car ever had a recall actioned for it? Is there a specific recall for it?

The issue is that if there is a recall but the car has never been serviced by Skoda, they will say it's not their fault you never took it in. It's catch 22 really. I think you're in for a fight!

[liner33]

This engine does have a design fault , there are dozens of people on the Skoda forums that have had the same failure , many of them have been repaired foc .

[Bullett]

No recall. People have checked on the Skoda/VW/SEAT systems and no recall issued for this problem. The general view (and I'm into hearsay here) is that although it's catastrophic for those affected it's not every engine that suffers and they all fail at different times.

There is a very long thread on briskoda about this with at least 45 documented cases with various outcomes. There are also documented cases across VW and SEAT sites as well.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Butter Face: You keep raising the fact that it hasn't been serviced by Skoda, but that is utterly irrelevant.

[Steve H]

ging84 said:

andymc said:

where is this 6 year period for SOGA

there is no time limit for SOGA
There is a 6 year time limit on which you can make a claim for damages for breach of contract in most cases. And ultimately that is what a claim under the sale of goods act is, a claim for breaching one of the statutory provisions of a sales contract.

I would have thought that the rules on latent damage would mean that the six year limit would start when the issue could reasonably have been known about rather than at the contract inception.

[CRA1G]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Butter Face: You keep raising the fact that it hasn't been serviced by Skoda, but that is utterly irrelevant.

Legally in terms of EU law servicing out side the dealer network while under warranty is irrelevant... as far as any goodwill is concerned it is NOT irrelevant.

[BertBert]

The OPs question was, given the 6 year "duration" of the SOGA. How does he sue Skoda our otherwise claim.

Well as it doesn't I think the OP is screwed. My advice now that you have asked the dealer and they have said sod off, is to get it fixed and move on.

Bert

[9mm]

OP, here's what I would do and IANAL but I have won plenty of cases in courts.

Start from the position that if this ever ends up in court, much weight will be attached to how reasonably all parties behaved.

So you need to ensure that everything you do and say, and particular write, could only be construed as most reasonable in the circumstances.

I'd suggest the actions of a reasonable person in your situation would be as follows:

Put all communications in writing and keep them polite and business-like.
Send everything recorded delivery and make notes after every conversation.
Do not impose unreasonable timescales, however much you need a car. So demands to "fix it within a week or else" are out.
Give the seller (the manufacturer isn't your target here) at least two opportunities to fix the car, over a period of a month from first notification of the fault.
Keep receipts for additional travel expenses while your car is out of action. Keep your expenditure low - the odd bus ticket, second class off peak rail tickets. Don't hire an expensive car or get taxis everywhere.
Don't do anything like allowing a third party to strip the engine. Ideally, don't let anyone but the seller near it.
If the car isn't fixed after two attempts, or if the seller refuses to entertain any repairs after giving them two chances to do so, give them a 14 day warning that unless you receive their proposals for fixing the car you will get the car repaired elsewhere and bill them.
If the above doesn't work, issue your Money Claim Online promptly after the expiry of the 14 day period.

Now if you follow the above steps you will be without a car for several months. There is no way to short cut the process and get everything fixed in a short period unless the seller wants to help.

Only you can judge whether it's worth waiting for the seller to demonstrate that they are being unhelpful, unreasonable and failing to meet their legal obligations.