Is prison the answer?
Discussion
Prison CAN be the answer but it depends on the crime. It could be argued that only people who are violent or in danger of further offending should be jailed.
I think one of the problems is that community service is just a total joke.
Today I was driving past a bunch of workers who had young lads in tow (clearly young offenders doing their reparation work) when my passenger spotted them and said "Do you know, this country could be absolutely spotless [meaning free from litter] if the community service system was overhauled".
I had to agree.
I think prisons should be functional and have decent provisions but not kitted out with gyms. If inmates want to get fit, then let's get them on a chain-gang.
I think one of the problems is that community service is just a total joke.
Today I was driving past a bunch of workers who had young lads in tow (clearly young offenders doing their reparation work) when my passenger spotted them and said "Do you know, this country could be absolutely spotless [meaning free from litter] if the community service system was overhauled".
I had to agree.
I think prisons should be functional and have decent provisions but not kitted out with gyms. If inmates want to get fit, then let's get them on a chain-gang.
Streetcop said:
We talk on here about crime prevention, reduction etc... Is prison the answer?
Personally I say"Yes"
About time that scrotes were birched.
Pedo's castrated.
Rapists/murderers hanged.
Theives kicked shitless.(especially includes "safety camera partnership staff")
Muggers 50 lashes.
Anti social yobs treated to a bit of nice conscription into the armed forces...only theyd never see any "arms".
These absolute bastards of conmen that steal from pensioners...if i had my way theyd be pigfood.
Car thieves should lose a finger every time they offend(no pain relief either) culminating in loss of a hand if they persist.
Drug pushers should be given a fatal OD of the shit they push.
In short, its time to get nasty.
For far too long we've been soft on these bastards, its time to show them what real fear is.
Think im too hard? Desperate situations reguire desperate solutions.
On the subject of prisons and 'criminals'..
In my police station; in the parade room, the walls have pictures of between ten and forty key criminals. These pictures are taken when they are arrested and brought into custody. They are all male and in their late teens or early twenties, they all take heroin and crack cocaine and they have criminal records stretching back several years. These faces stare out, ravaged from the effects of years of drugs and the hours of withdrawal since their arrest, their clothing, more often than not, consists of the paper suits that prisoners are forced to wear because their clothing has been seized for forensic investigation. Next to the photographs are written details of other associates, addresses and vehicles that they use, with exhortations to record and report any sightings.
What is interesting about these pictures is that they don’t change. They might disappear from the wall when the individual is in prison and then reappear when they are free, but essentially it is the same faces year after year. A career spent staring at the same faces is probably why police officers would not make good penal reformers
If they are not in prison, they are stealing, QED prison IS the only answer.
What would happen if these individuals where incarcerated for ten years for their next offence? Would ten more replace them? In my experience the answer is no
Prison is a solution for police officers, because dramatic effects can be seen almost immediately: crime drops in the area around where the offender lives and the longer the prison sentence the longer the drop in crime. The quality of life improves in those areas as well, because prolific criminals seek their thrills not just by taking drugs, but by assaulting people, joyriding in cars and turning their neighbourhoods into jungles. People who live in these areas know when our nominals have gone to prison because they tell us: “Oh yes, things are much quieter since John Smith has gone inside
. Although, I suppose it won’t be long before his brother will be out then?”
Does prison work for the nominals once they are inside? Probably not. Will they re-offend once they get out? Most of them, I’m sure, but that’s because they are criminals
. Some of them won’t though: they may finally find a girl who won’t put up with their behaviour or they may get a job that will keep them busy long enough for them to lose the taste for class A drugs. Drug treatment programs are vital in prisons and it’s important that these places are kept drug free, the argument that such programs are really only available to prisoners whose sentences last longer than a year surely demonstrates that such people should be imprisoned for an appropriate length of time.
I don’t imagine prison per se is the only answer, and I’m sure that most of my colleagues have, at some time or other, pondered about whether there is a better way of dealing with prolific criminals. Most police officers are sceptical about the alternatives like community sentences or drug referral orders and I predict similar doubt from rank and file officers about the new fashion for “restorative justice”, where offenders are made to confront their victims and apologise. Most offenders I know would be happy to apologise if it meant they didn’t have to go to prison, but saying sorry won’t be enough to stop them re-offending. The criminal classes laugh at the red tape that the police get wrapped up in; the gutless Magistrates and the prisons that have facilities to give hotel chains a run for their money.
In my police station; in the parade room, the walls have pictures of between ten and forty key criminals. These pictures are taken when they are arrested and brought into custody. They are all male and in their late teens or early twenties, they all take heroin and crack cocaine and they have criminal records stretching back several years. These faces stare out, ravaged from the effects of years of drugs and the hours of withdrawal since their arrest, their clothing, more often than not, consists of the paper suits that prisoners are forced to wear because their clothing has been seized for forensic investigation. Next to the photographs are written details of other associates, addresses and vehicles that they use, with exhortations to record and report any sightings.
What is interesting about these pictures is that they don’t change. They might disappear from the wall when the individual is in prison and then reappear when they are free, but essentially it is the same faces year after year. A career spent staring at the same faces is probably why police officers would not make good penal reformers
If they are not in prison, they are stealing, QED prison IS the only answer.
What would happen if these individuals where incarcerated for ten years for their next offence? Would ten more replace them? In my experience the answer is no
Prison is a solution for police officers, because dramatic effects can be seen almost immediately: crime drops in the area around where the offender lives and the longer the prison sentence the longer the drop in crime. The quality of life improves in those areas as well, because prolific criminals seek their thrills not just by taking drugs, but by assaulting people, joyriding in cars and turning their neighbourhoods into jungles. People who live in these areas know when our nominals have gone to prison because they tell us: “Oh yes, things are much quieter since John Smith has gone inside
. Although, I suppose it won’t be long before his brother will be out then?” Does prison work for the nominals once they are inside? Probably not. Will they re-offend once they get out? Most of them, I’m sure, but that’s because they are criminals
. Some of them won’t though: they may finally find a girl who won’t put up with their behaviour or they may get a job that will keep them busy long enough for them to lose the taste for class A drugs. Drug treatment programs are vital in prisons and it’s important that these places are kept drug free, the argument that such programs are really only available to prisoners whose sentences last longer than a year surely demonstrates that such people should be imprisoned for an appropriate length of time. I don’t imagine prison per se is the only answer, and I’m sure that most of my colleagues have, at some time or other, pondered about whether there is a better way of dealing with prolific criminals. Most police officers are sceptical about the alternatives like community sentences or drug referral orders and I predict similar doubt from rank and file officers about the new fashion for “restorative justice”, where offenders are made to confront their victims and apologise. Most offenders I know would be happy to apologise if it meant they didn’t have to go to prison, but saying sorry won’t be enough to stop them re-offending. The criminal classes laugh at the red tape that the police get wrapped up in; the gutless Magistrates and the prisons that have facilities to give hotel chains a run for their money.
Hey Gary, Somethings wrong here mate, Very wrong. I actually AGREE with you 101%. Especially that the sentances should be longer, long enough to get them off the drugs. In fact don't ever let them out until they're clean for six months at least. 
edit: Oh, and none of this slow withdrawal stuff either (why should we pay for alternatives) Cold turkey for 'em, every time.
>> Edited by 8Pack on Sunday 23 January 18:18
edit: Oh, and none of this slow withdrawal stuff either (why should we pay for alternatives) Cold turkey for 'em, every time.
>> Edited by 8Pack on Sunday 23 January 18:18
Streetcop said:
We talk on here about crime prevention, reduction etc... Is prison the answer?
Personally I say
For me much the same as the previous reply. Can't remember the exact figure but the cost of keeping an immate is something like £75K per year. It is clear inappropraite to lock everyone up. Certainly violent and repeat offenders. Prison should be tough, they shouldn't be a holiday camp, and should to a degree aim to discourage people wanting to speed time there. There has to be an alterative and proper community service should fill that role eg hard graft for the benefit of the community.
Are magistrates gutless? They seem all to keen to hand out maximum penalties to speeding motorists. I guess the fact that real criminals may well ensure the magistrates kids come come with their faces slashed perhaps puts them off handing out stiffer sentences.
Parhaps magistrates are cowardly little tossers would be a better description.
Parhaps magistrates are cowardly little tossers would be a better description.
There again
[devils advocate]
you could just off the bastards after the third conviction - won't be reoffending after that, now will they?
[/devils advocate]
Of course - as the States has shown. The Death Penalty is no deterrent. Nor is anything much else. Crims simply believe they won't be caught - despite all evidence to the contrary.
[devils advocate]
which is why just doing the buggers in using the ashes for fertiliser would solve the problem permanently, at least in their case.
[/devils advocate]
[devils advocate]
you could just off the bastards after the third conviction - won't be reoffending after that, now will they?
[/devils advocate]
Of course - as the States has shown. The Death Penalty is no deterrent. Nor is anything much else. Crims simply believe they won't be caught - despite all evidence to the contrary.
[devils advocate]
which is why just doing the buggers in using the ashes for fertiliser would solve the problem permanently, at least in their case.
[/devils advocate]
em Trouble is..the pressure nowadays to end pursuits safely or more accurately; Dont get involved in the first place..is so strong you wouldn't believe it..
With 62 fatalities last year in police pursuits...another year like that and the power will be taken from the police.
It wont be made public at first, but you can bet it'll leak out..
I think we are all sort of agreeing here. Prison is working at its best when it removes the scrotes from our streets and thus makes the streets safer.
The trouble is the prisons themselves are not reabilitiating the criminals. They should be forced to work to actually pay for their keep, and pay back for their crimes. There should be no drugs in prisons, and anything more than a square cell and a bucket should be earned while they are there. If alot more effort went into looknig after and changing the scrotes while they were in there, then it would be safe to let them out.
The trouble is the prisons themselves are not reabilitiating the criminals. They should be forced to work to actually pay for their keep, and pay back for their crimes. There should be no drugs in prisons, and anything more than a square cell and a bucket should be earned while they are there. If alot more effort went into looknig after and changing the scrotes while they were in there, then it would be safe to let them out.
DeltaFox said:
We talk on here about crime prevention, reduction etc... Is prison the answer?
Personally I say
About time that scrotes were birched.
Pedo's castrated.
Rapists/murderers hanged.
Theives kicked shitless.(especially includes "safety camera partnership staff")
Muggers 50 lashes.
Anti social yobs treated to a bit of nice conscription into the armed forces...only theyd never see any "arms".
These absolute bastards of conmen that steal from pensioners...if i had my way theyd be pigfood.
Car thieves should lose a finger every time they offend(no pain relief either) culminating in loss of a hand if they persist.
Drug pushers should be given a fatal OD of the shit they push.
In short, its time to get nasty.
For far too long we've been soft on these bastards, its time to show them what real fear is.
Think im too hard? Desperate situations reguire desperate solutions.
and then if comeone gets wrongly convicted we reattach their testicles/fingers/various body parts and/or apologise to the relatives of siad person for killing them/maiming them for life, this would only work if all convictions were %100 perfect
OK, I hate to have to bring this up while you are all revelling in your apparent ability to exclude these "scrotes" from the human race, but the reality is of course that they are human, and something has happened to them that compells them to behave in the way they do.
Now before you all start screaming, "Iolaire's one of them f***in' bleeding heart socialites!", let me explain something to you.
I look at my first grandchild who is now nine months, and I know beyond all doubt that if anyone as much as looked at her, or indeed any of my family the wrong way, they would never be able to perpetrate another evil deed; and believe me I'm capable of ensuring that.
But the reason I feel that I would be obliged to do this is that society, and unfortunately the Law in particular, no longer protects the "innocent".
Once again let me make it clear that I did NOT say the police, particularly you lads on here, I am talking about the way our society has, for various reasons, became incapable of providing a safe, stable environment for the community it serves.
If we decided tomorrow that we would simply execute all of the so-called scrotes, car thieves and other undesireables, it would make absolutely no difference, because the next day or the day after that, or next week, our society would determine that others would simply take their place: it is as inevitable as the sunrise.
There is a sickness in our country that is insidious and growing ever stronger with each passing day, and until we identify and deal with the problems that are the essence of this sickness, it will continue to permeate and grow like a cancer. You cannot pass a law and hope for the best; it is just a statute on a piece of paper and solves nothing.
I could not fail to notice over the past few months how many of you seem to think that all that is required is simply a change of Government and things will automatically improve.
I'm sorry, but history has demonstrated that you couldn't be more wrong; it is the system and the mentality displayed within it that is terminally flawed. As long as you permit Government within this system, nothing will change.
Even if it were possible to have men of the highest integrity in Parliament, unless they radically change the manner of Government, the system will simply swallow their integrity and lower their morals to the grey level that exists now.
Now before you all start screaming, "Iolaire's one of them f***in' bleeding heart socialites!", let me explain something to you.
I look at my first grandchild who is now nine months, and I know beyond all doubt that if anyone as much as looked at her, or indeed any of my family the wrong way, they would never be able to perpetrate another evil deed; and believe me I'm capable of ensuring that.
But the reason I feel that I would be obliged to do this is that society, and unfortunately the Law in particular, no longer protects the "innocent".
Once again let me make it clear that I did NOT say the police, particularly you lads on here, I am talking about the way our society has, for various reasons, became incapable of providing a safe, stable environment for the community it serves.
If we decided tomorrow that we would simply execute all of the so-called scrotes, car thieves and other undesireables, it would make absolutely no difference, because the next day or the day after that, or next week, our society would determine that others would simply take their place: it is as inevitable as the sunrise.
There is a sickness in our country that is insidious and growing ever stronger with each passing day, and until we identify and deal with the problems that are the essence of this sickness, it will continue to permeate and grow like a cancer. You cannot pass a law and hope for the best; it is just a statute on a piece of paper and solves nothing.
I could not fail to notice over the past few months how many of you seem to think that all that is required is simply a change of Government and things will automatically improve.
I'm sorry, but history has demonstrated that you couldn't be more wrong; it is the system and the mentality displayed within it that is terminally flawed. As long as you permit Government within this system, nothing will change.
Even if it were possible to have men of the highest integrity in Parliament, unless they radically change the manner of Government, the system will simply swallow their integrity and lower their morals to the grey level that exists now.
The prison system does not work fully at the moment, yes we take some off the street but what happens is they go inside and take it easy. Now we cannot have a system like some of the far east countries where human dignities are removed but we could have one where the inmates do not want to return. In stead of parole for good behaviour, increase the sentence for bad behaviour. Don't let them congregate and don't give them time to do drugs etc etc. It never ceases to amaze me when you hear of gangs running the prision, shouldn't it be the wardens? I agree with IOLAIRE in the casues are many and varied but whilst we do not know really why we should still punish fully. You get jail for some realtivly minor offences yet murderers are sent to Leyhill near to me, and just walk away yet some of the inmates who work in the gardens and craft business there do tremendous work, they won't have time to get up to no good. And as for overcrowding, if we topped the clearly guilty murderers like Sutcliffe etc there wouldn't be overcrowding.
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