Query relating to Electrical Job carried out.
Discussion
I had a local Electrical company do some work in my house. They changed my living room lighting from 2 lights to 21 smaller spotlights.
In the course of doing so, they obviously cut a lot of holes in our ceiling and made a lot of mess. To be expected. However, they used inadequate dust sheets and had no means of cleaning up their mess, so used our Dyson - which has had to be replaced as it was trashed, not being designed for building waste. My oak flooring was ruined by 2 days of walking plaster dust into it and after they finished, I needed the services of a professional cleaning company to get my room back to being habitable. Even then, the floor needed re-varnishing.
I'm "discussing" their invoice with them - they've knocked £100 off so far as a gesture - but they have provided no "test Certificate" to say the additional wiring is safe or indeed has been checked.
I'm told by another electrician that the whole circuit should now be wired to an RCD and a formal test certificate supplied or it doesn't comply with the regulations. Is this correct? I queried it with the installing company and they say it doesn't come under those regulations... Who's right? Should I demand a test certificate before paying, or do I not need one? To be clear, they just added to and altered the existing wiring, they haven't put in a new circuit as such.
Appreciate any advice.
In the course of doing so, they obviously cut a lot of holes in our ceiling and made a lot of mess. To be expected. However, they used inadequate dust sheets and had no means of cleaning up their mess, so used our Dyson - which has had to be replaced as it was trashed, not being designed for building waste. My oak flooring was ruined by 2 days of walking plaster dust into it and after they finished, I needed the services of a professional cleaning company to get my room back to being habitable. Even then, the floor needed re-varnishing.
I'm "discussing" their invoice with them - they've knocked £100 off so far as a gesture - but they have provided no "test Certificate" to say the additional wiring is safe or indeed has been checked.
I'm told by another electrician that the whole circuit should now be wired to an RCD and a formal test certificate supplied or it doesn't comply with the regulations. Is this correct? I queried it with the installing company and they say it doesn't come under those regulations... Who's right? Should I demand a test certificate before paying, or do I not need one? To be clear, they just added to and altered the existing wiring, they haven't put in a new circuit as such.
Appreciate any advice.
A certificate is not strictly required unless a new circuit going back to fuse box has been added. If it has just been replacement of lamp fittings, then this would not count as a new circuit.
A certificate SHOULD have been issued as good practice, but this type of minor replacement work does not come under buildings regulations.
An RCD is required for any circuit where the wires are concealed (behind walls or ceilings/floors). However, this is a new requirement and any circuits installed under old regulations do not need upgrading.
A certificate SHOULD have been issued as good practice, but this type of minor replacement work does not come under buildings regulations.
An RCD is required for any circuit where the wires are concealed (behind walls or ceilings/floors). However, this is a new requirement and any circuits installed under old regulations do not need upgrading.
Have a look throught this link and if you have any uncertainties you would be best to speak to your local building control dept.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/common...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/common...
JustinP1 said:
Did they ask to use it before using it?
Basically, they sent a young lad to do the job as their Electrician who had turned up and quoted left the day before the job was to start. The lad turned up in his car, so had no room to bring things like vacuum cleaners etc with him. When he'd finished, he said he had nothing to clear up so could he borrow our vacuum cleaner and a mop. I told him we only had the dyson, - no mop - so he asked to borrow that, saying it'd do....
You won't believe how much trouble I was in from the Household Management for loaning it to him. Cost me £249 for a replacement....
So - yes he asked and yes I gave it to him....
bhippy said:
I'm told by another electrician that the whole circuit should now be wired to an RCD and a formal test certificate supplied or it doesn't comply with the regulations. Is this correct?
Have they extended an existing circuit, or added a circuit?Is your existing consumer unit ("fuse box") RCD-protected, or is it ancient?
Part P of the building regs is the relevant bit here.
If a Dyson can't cope with hoovering up some plaster dust, then that just confirms my opinion that they're fragile form-over-function rubbish. Henry. Half the price, and what most builders and commercial cleaners use, because they're indestructible.
TooMany2cvs said:
Have they extended an existing circuit, or added a circuit?
Is your existing consumer unit ("fuse box") RCD-protected, or is it ancient?
Part P of the building regs is the relevant bit here.
If a Dyson can't cope with hoovering up some plaster dust, then that just confirms my opinion that they're fragile form-over-function rubbish. Henry. Half the price, and what most builders and commercial cleaners use, because they're indestructible.
They've extended the existing circuit. There was originally 2 lights connected via 2 switches. There's now 21 lights connected to the 2 switches, switchable in two groups. Is your existing consumer unit ("fuse box") RCD-protected, or is it ancient?
Part P of the building regs is the relevant bit here.
If a Dyson can't cope with hoovering up some plaster dust, then that just confirms my opinion that they're fragile form-over-function rubbish. Henry. Half the price, and what most builders and commercial cleaners use, because they're indestructible.
The fusebox has an RCD protecting the downstairs ring main, but the light circuits are on the usual switch type fuse thingys....
Totally agree re: the Dyson. I'm not an expert on these things myself, but I gather any and all builders use Henry's. Just a shame this guy didn't....
TooMany2cvs said:
If a Dyson can't cope with hoovering up some plaster dust, then that just confirms my opinion that they're fragile form-over-function rubbish. Henry. Half the price, and what most builders and commercial cleaners use, because they're indestructible.
Agree. Dyson is overpriced, overmarketed crap. Henry rocks, even though he has unfortunately been detuned due to some EC regulations. 
I had a similar situation this year with a National window installer. Let's call 'em "A".
Amongst many many other problems, "A" damaged some Oak flooring. They wanted me to pay their full bill and then go through their claims procedure. I wasn't happy with that, so I got two quotes, sent them copies of both and paid "A" what I owed them less the lower of the two quotes.
Up to them to chase me through the courts if they want the rest of the money.
Amongst many many other problems, "A" damaged some Oak flooring. They wanted me to pay their full bill and then go through their claims procedure. I wasn't happy with that, so I got two quotes, sent them copies of both and paid "A" what I owed them less the lower of the two quotes.
Up to them to chase me through the courts if they want the rest of the money.
littleredrooster said:
Our Dyson - the original DC01 - was used for about twelve years cleaning up building rubble during the extensive renovation of our house...
We had the same and did the same.The trouble with the new ones is all the filters etc I think.
Anyway, I'm surprised that the op didn't make comment whilst they were there working, especially with protecting flooring etc.
Alucidnation said:
We had the same and did the same.
The trouble with the new ones is all the filters etc I think.
Anyway, I'm surprised that the op didn't make comment whilst they were there working, especially with protecting flooring etc.
I did... And I told him he'd better make sure it was cleaned up properly before the wife got home. It wasn't and she immediately phoned his boss to complain... The trouble with the new ones is all the filters etc I think.
Anyway, I'm surprised that the op didn't make comment whilst they were there working, especially with protecting flooring etc.
Its why people shy away from work in occupied premises, more trouble than they're worth. I hope he charged a lot to make it worthwhile.
Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
stuart313 said:
Its why people shy away from work in occupied premises, more trouble than they're worth. I hope he charged a lot to make it worthwhile.
Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
He got past the floor joists by cutting 15 square holes in the ceiling down one end and drilling holes in all the joists to feed the cables through. Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
Would you really cover your whole room yourself rather than expect the tradesman to do it?
I had a plasterer in to repair the ceiling and the plasterer left the room immaculate. Surely clearing up after is part of the job - or am I wrong?
bhippy said:
stuart313 said:
Its why people shy away from work in occupied premises, more trouble than they're worth. I hope he charged a lot to make it worthwhile.
Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
He got past the floor joists by cutting 15 square holes in the ceiling down one end and drilling holes in all the joists to feed the cables through. Unless they have installed new switch wires in the walls then no RCD protection is required, regs do not apply to cables in the ceiling. Although they should still be clipped and not draped across, doing this though is nigh on impossible unless you either rip the ceiling down or lift the boards above. How did they get past the floor joists?
As far as a cert goes, no building control cert is required as the job is non notifiable, they should really issue a minor works certificate but no law forcing them to do so.
As for the dust, if it was my house I would make sure it was sheeted up myself before he arrived. Its like when the customers get you round for an extra socket and you walk in the room and its piled from floor to ceiling with junk.
Would you really cover your whole room yourself rather than expect the tradesman to do it?
I had a plasterer in to repair the ceiling and the plasterer left the room immaculate. Surely clearing up after is part of the job - or am I wrong?
As for cleaning, yes ideally the tradesman would be immaculate but there are so many nowadays who don't give a hoot about things like this, especially if they only work for a company, no-one is interested anymore. Ask yourself this, will you cover everything up next time you have anything done.
I used our Dyson to clean up some plaster dust, it never worked well afterwards and I thought I'd borked it. After all, the adds claim they never lose suction, right?
I went out and brought a brand new replacement and had barely unboxed it before my wife said 'Have we - i.e. you - ever cleaned the filters?' (No, we hadn't.)
I found the instructions, ran the dust-and-god-knows-what-clogged filter under a cold tap, dried on a radiator and a few hours later the Dyson was as good as new. It might be worth trying before you write off a perfectly good machine. I used to work for a vacuum company (not Dyson) and his machines were well-regarded by the competitors, hence why they all ape his designs and mechanics now.
Henrys are popular because they are cheap and workmanlike.
I went out and brought a brand new replacement and had barely unboxed it before my wife said 'Have we - i.e. you - ever cleaned the filters?' (No, we hadn't.)
I found the instructions, ran the dust-and-god-knows-what-clogged filter under a cold tap, dried on a radiator and a few hours later the Dyson was as good as new. It might be worth trying before you write off a perfectly good machine. I used to work for a vacuum company (not Dyson) and his machines were well-regarded by the competitors, hence why they all ape his designs and mechanics now.
Henrys are popular because they are cheap and workmanlike.
bhippy said:
He got past the floor joists by cutting 15 square holes in the ceiling down one end and drilling holes in all the joists to feed the cables through.
Would you really cover your whole room yourself rather than expect the tradesman to do it?
I had a plasterer in to repair the ceiling and the plasterer left the room immaculate. Surely clearing up after is part of the job - or am I wrong?
electricians, plumbers and joiners are the messiest of all the tradesmen. many too used to working on new build sites where the painters cover up all their shoddy work and cleaners come in at the end for final clean up. i have many mates who are involved in the trades mentioned, none of them own dust sheets. clarty bWould you really cover your whole room yourself rather than expect the tradesman to do it?
I had a plasterer in to repair the ceiling and the plasterer left the room immaculate. Surely clearing up after is part of the job - or am I wrong?
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