Latest ill-thought out repression from DfT
Discussion
Few seem aware of the Continuous Enforcement of Motor Insurance Requirements. See here <www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/pdf/dft_rdsafety_pdf_033114.pdf>
I was made aware of it by email from someone who posts on here often. But I'm suprised it hasn't yet been mentioned.
Note - Responses should be sent to DfT by 12.00 noon on Friday 25 February 2005.
Of the list of 84 Govt / establishment & industry organizations, the usual anti-car pressure groups BRAKE, The Motorists Forum ( another of Begg's CfIT creatures ) , RoadPeace, Transport 2000, Transport for London are being consulted. I have emailed the Motorsports Association (MSA) and ABD to suggest they make appropriate representations on behalf of those they represent.
Basically there are existing harsh penalties of £ 5000 plus 6-8 points for those chavs who choose to drive without insurance. The £ 200 plus 6 points is a FPN Option. But on top of this DfT now want an extra set of automatic penalties ( £100 immediately and later £ 1000 at court but with no points ) for anyone who has a car which has no insurance according to their database. While a SORN is supposed to be a defence to this, under the present DVLA practice, if the Registered Keeper makes a SORN declaration for a vehicle, this SORN is automatically cancelled on renewal of Excise tax.
In the case of rally cars registered for road use, road tax is often maintained 12 months or the year and no SORN declaration is required for the vehicle. However insurance is taken out for summer or competition seasons or under RDS just for the event alone by the Registered keeper. No-one declares a SORN with valid Excise to allow a mech maybe to road test or move the vehicle using the tech's own insurance ; under the current proposals the Registered Keeper would commit an offence at the time of cancellation or expiry of the Insurance which could mean the minute the event finishes.
In the case of someone who has a car repaired for a couple of weeks and is obliged to transfer his car insurance to the courtesy car and sees no reason to have to SORN his car while its being repaired, it seems that an offence will be committed as soon as that transfer is effected. What happens to cars being moved under a motor traders policy ? I'm sure others can think of plenty of other anomalies.
Unless the notable Professor David Greenaway is simply sadly lacking in basic common sense, it stinks of yet another control-revenue earner for DVLA. Its won't hit those who don't register their dodgy cars at all, only those who are not 100% organised about paperwork. As if DVLA ever were ! If you are concerned - read the .pdf and write personally to the DfT.
I was made aware of it by email from someone who posts on here often. But I'm suprised it hasn't yet been mentioned.
Note - Responses should be sent to DfT by 12.00 noon on Friday 25 February 2005.
Of the list of 84 Govt / establishment & industry organizations, the usual anti-car pressure groups BRAKE, The Motorists Forum ( another of Begg's CfIT creatures ) , RoadPeace, Transport 2000, Transport for London are being consulted. I have emailed the Motorsports Association (MSA) and ABD to suggest they make appropriate representations on behalf of those they represent.
Basically there are existing harsh penalties of £ 5000 plus 6-8 points for those chavs who choose to drive without insurance. The £ 200 plus 6 points is a FPN Option. But on top of this DfT now want an extra set of automatic penalties ( £100 immediately and later £ 1000 at court but with no points ) for anyone who has a car which has no insurance according to their database. While a SORN is supposed to be a defence to this, under the present DVLA practice, if the Registered Keeper makes a SORN declaration for a vehicle, this SORN is automatically cancelled on renewal of Excise tax.
In the case of rally cars registered for road use, road tax is often maintained 12 months or the year and no SORN declaration is required for the vehicle. However insurance is taken out for summer or competition seasons or under RDS just for the event alone by the Registered keeper. No-one declares a SORN with valid Excise to allow a mech maybe to road test or move the vehicle using the tech's own insurance ; under the current proposals the Registered Keeper would commit an offence at the time of cancellation or expiry of the Insurance which could mean the minute the event finishes.
In the case of someone who has a car repaired for a couple of weeks and is obliged to transfer his car insurance to the courtesy car and sees no reason to have to SORN his car while its being repaired, it seems that an offence will be committed as soon as that transfer is effected. What happens to cars being moved under a motor traders policy ? I'm sure others can think of plenty of other anomalies.
Unless the notable Professor David Greenaway is simply sadly lacking in basic common sense, it stinks of yet another control-revenue earner for DVLA. Its won't hit those who don't register their dodgy cars at all, only those who are not 100% organised about paperwork. As if DVLA ever were ! If you are concerned - read the .pdf and write personally to the DfT.
Thx Regmolehusband - the sooner everybody sees this the better.
How Greenaway cannot see this I do not understand. There is surely no paucity of intellect here. Maybe his advice has been taken over by those arrogant dimwits who inhabit DVLA and simply think "........it worked for road tax, why can't it work for Insurance too ? " or maybe its simply another revenue grab on the law abiding majority who, unlike the DVLA are not 100% bureaucratically efficient and don't conform to the norm. The fact that its a £ 100 ( same sort of level as the SORN tax grab, or the 'late return penalty' or the Congestion charge penalty for non prepayment) suggests to me ( and you I think )it may well be the latter.
How Greenaway cannot see this I do not understand. There is surely no paucity of intellect here. Maybe his advice has been taken over by those arrogant dimwits who inhabit DVLA and simply think "........it worked for road tax, why can't it work for Insurance too ? " or maybe its simply another revenue grab on the law abiding majority who, unlike the DVLA are not 100% bureaucratically efficient and don't conform to the norm. The fact that its a £ 100 ( same sort of level as the SORN tax grab, or the 'late return penalty' or the Congestion charge penalty for non prepayment) suggests to me ( and you I think )it may well be the latter.
Just fired this off:
Dear Mr Roberts,
I feel that the requirement to do something about uninsured drivers is very important, however, this proposal is not the answer.
My reasons:
How do you cope with cars under a motor trader's insurance policy?
How do you cope with cars that are used for competition on public roads, and only have insurance during the competition season, but remain taxed for the full year for convenience?
Or people who put their cars in for servicing/repair and transfer their insurance to a loan car for the period of service/repair?
Or where the database is incomplete?
I also note that the consultation list does NOT include the two main motorists bodies of the UK:
The Institute of Advanced Motorists
The Association of British Drivers
Please can you confirm that this was an oversight that will be corrected?
I am also unclear why this is being distributed to BRAKE?
Best Regards
Kevin J Day
Dear Mr Roberts,
I feel that the requirement to do something about uninsured drivers is very important, however, this proposal is not the answer.
My reasons:
How do you cope with cars under a motor trader's insurance policy?
How do you cope with cars that are used for competition on public roads, and only have insurance during the competition season, but remain taxed for the full year for convenience?
Or people who put their cars in for servicing/repair and transfer their insurance to a loan car for the period of service/repair?
Or where the database is incomplete?
I also note that the consultation list does NOT include the two main motorists bodies of the UK:
The Institute of Advanced Motorists
The Association of British Drivers
Please can you confirm that this was an oversight that will be corrected?
I am also unclear why this is being distributed to BRAKE?
Best Regards
Kevin J Day
So in essence as I understand it if you are the registered keeper of a vehicle and you haven't filled in a SORN then you will automatically collect a £100 fine if your insurance lapses without the police having to prove you've used the vehicle on the road.
So if your insurance runs out yet the vehicle is still taxed - you're a very dodgy person £100 please - thank you very much. If after the issue of the first FPN the vehicle continued to have no insurance then you'll be paying a visit to the magistrates - it doesn't matter whether it's been locked up in a garage or not.
Its purpose is apparently "to deliver a sharp lesson to those motorists who fail to renew their insurance on time". So, if it goes through, we'll all have to be pretty handy with those SORNs when necessary or remember to renew the insurance before the tax runs out, or an FPN will drop on the doormat.
More regulation and money for the treasury.
"Reg"
So if your insurance runs out yet the vehicle is still taxed - you're a very dodgy person £100 please - thank you very much. If after the issue of the first FPN the vehicle continued to have no insurance then you'll be paying a visit to the magistrates - it doesn't matter whether it's been locked up in a garage or not.
Its purpose is apparently "to deliver a sharp lesson to those motorists who fail to renew their insurance on time". So, if it goes through, we'll all have to be pretty handy with those SORNs when necessary or remember to renew the insurance before the tax runs out, or an FPN will drop on the doormat.
More regulation and money for the treasury.
"Reg"
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