DVLA has no common sense, expeditions.
Discussion
I failed to get a sensible answer to my question:
I drive off from England to Europe and beyond in my camper, i never stay in one country for more than a couple of months, i'm away for two years and return to Dover, on the boat i phone a Dover MOT garage and make an appointment .
But the new ANPR based 'all singing dancing computer' sees my number plate and issues a huge fine for lack of MOT, tax. It also doesn't seem to see i bought green card insurance.
Why is the DVLA so parochial and pathetic.
I drive off from England to Europe and beyond in my camper, i never stay in one country for more than a couple of months, i'm away for two years and return to Dover, on the boat i phone a Dover MOT garage and make an appointment .
But the new ANPR based 'all singing dancing computer' sees my number plate and issues a huge fine for lack of MOT, tax. It also doesn't seem to see i bought green card insurance.
Why is the DVLA so parochial and pathetic.
As far as DVLA are concerned, taking the vehicle out of the country for 12 months or more constitutes a permanent export : https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk/for-1...
rogerhudson said:
But the new ANPR based 'all singing dancing computer' sees my number plate and issues a huge fine for lack of MOT, tax.
An ANPR camera has seen an untaxed, unMOTed vehicle... and a letter's been sent to the registered keeper... Umm, what's the problem exactly?You were on the way to a pre-booked MOT, following which you immediately re-taxed it, right? So you were using it perfectly legally, but there's no way to coordinate all booked tests centrally. If you hear anything more (unlikely), just point out that you were doing exactly that.
rogerhudson said:
It also doesn't seem to see i bought green card insurance.
No such thing as "green card" within most European countries, and hasn't been for decades. Your home UK policy covers you automatically.Or do you mean you didn't have a UK policy showing on MID...?
rogerhudson said:
Why is the DVLA so parochial and pathetic.
Umm, you do know that to be legal as a temporary import in another country, EU or not, a vehicle has to be totally road-legal in the home country at all times, right? MOT, tax, insurance. Same applies for a UK-reg car in France as (say) a PL- or RO- or LV-reg car in UK.Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 8th June 15:42
TooMany2cvs said:
An ANPR camera has seen an untaxed, unMOTed vehicle... and a letter's been sent to the registered keeper... Umm, what's the problem exactly?
You were on the way to a pre-booked MOT, following which you immediately re-taxed it, right? So you were using it perfectly legally, but there's no way to coordinate all booked tests centrally. If you hear anything more (unlikely), just point out that you were doing exactly that.
You missed, presumably, the absence of a SORN. If not taxed, it must be SORN - unless the absence of tax predates the SORN rules.You were on the way to a pre-booked MOT, following which you immediately re-taxed it, right? So you were using it perfectly legally, but there's no way to coordinate all booked tests centrally. If you hear anything more (unlikely), just point out that you were doing exactly that.
TooMany2cvs said:
No such thing as "green card" within most European countries, and hasn't been for decades. Your home UK policy covers you automatically.
No - your UK policy provides the equivalent of minimum cover for European travel and is usually limited to a set number of days per year. It is possible to extend your policy to a higher and longer level of cover by getting a "green card" added to it.Edited by marshalla on Monday 8th June 15:28
If the vehicle is taxed, MOT's and insured on the day of departure then in a years time, without returning to the UK, you will be illegal abroad. You can still have insurance, but no MOT and consequently, no tax.
Need to cut your trip in 1/2 to remain legal or return just before the 1st year is up to get an MOT.
Need to cut your trip in 1/2 to remain legal or return just before the 1st year is up to get an MOT.
marshalla said:
You missed, presumably, the absence of a SORN. If not taxed, it must be SORN - unless the absence of tax predates the SORN rules.
I assumed the OP wasn't quite so daft as to forget to SORN it.marshalla said:
TooMany2cvs said:
No such thing as "green card" within most European countries, and hasn't been for decades. Your home UK policy covers you automatically.
No - your UK policy provides the equivalent of minimum cover for European travel and is usually limited to a set number of days per year. It is possible to extend your policy to a higher and longer level of cover by getting a "green card" added to it.
Most continental insurers are quite happy to hand 'em out, whilst many UK insurers still seem to regard a day trip to France as a bit dangerously radical.
marshalla said:
As far as DVLA are concerned, taking the vehicle out of the country for 12 months or more constitutes a permanent export : https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk/for-1...
In which case, the OP was then driving around in a vehicle with hooky plates on, rather than the ones issued by whichever country he imported it to and registered it in.rogerhudson said:
I failed to get a sensible answer to my question:
I drive off from England to Europe and beyond in my camper, i never stay in one country for more than a couple of months, i'm away for two years and return to Dover, on the boat i phone a Dover MOT garage and make an appointment .
But the new ANPR based 'all singing dancing computer' sees my number plate and issues a huge fine for lack of MOT, tax. It also doesn't seem to see i bought green card insurance.
Why is the DVLA so parochial and pathetic.
This didn't go the way you were expecting did it? Maybe a thread entitled "I broke the rules in several different ways and when I returned I was caught for it and now I'm quite indignant about it all" would've been better. I drive off from England to Europe and beyond in my camper, i never stay in one country for more than a couple of months, i'm away for two years and return to Dover, on the boat i phone a Dover MOT garage and make an appointment .
But the new ANPR based 'all singing dancing computer' sees my number plate and issues a huge fine for lack of MOT, tax. It also doesn't seem to see i bought green card insurance.
Why is the DVLA so parochial and pathetic.
marshalla said:
As far as DVLA are concerned, taking the vehicle out of the country for 12 months or more constitutes a permanent export : https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk/for-1...
From a practical point of view you'd pretty much find it impossible to do legally. With no address or residence in the countries you're passing through, you're not going to be able to matriculate the car.Realistically you'd be better with the documents going to a trusted address in the UK. Continue to tax it and insure it as normal. And you won't get in trouble in any specific country if you stay within with limits (Portugal you need to matriculate a car within 6 months). Presumably a european trip wouldn't exceed any of these.
I guess you could go on an 11 month trip and just cut short a few stops.
Or go out for 6 months in western Europe, take a ferry back, re-insure, MOT, Tax etc and then head out again to do eastern Europe and come back after up to 11 months.
Or the other way round or any combination.
I was thinking maybe if a British embassy with a parking garage could count as British soil so you could count as re-entering the UK to 'reset the timer' but forgot about the MOT bit. Maybe buy a new car that doesn't need an MOT?
(I don't know if this would work)
Or go out for 6 months in western Europe, take a ferry back, re-insure, MOT, Tax etc and then head out again to do eastern Europe and come back after up to 11 months.
Or the other way round or any combination.
I was thinking maybe if a British embassy with a parking garage could count as British soil so you could count as re-entering the UK to 'reset the timer' but forgot about the MOT bit. Maybe buy a new car that doesn't need an MOT?
(I don't know if this would work)
bobtail4x4 said:
IIRC you can "test" the car in any EU country, mate of mine used to keep his car full time in Croatia but once a year would drive into italy for a test.
You can do if you like, but it won't make any difference. For a UK reg car to be legal, a UK MOT is required - and there ain't no test centres outside the UK.When we were away for a year and a half, we took the view that lack of MOT wasn't the most serious offence in the world. We tested the van before we went in May. When the tax was up in January, we re-taxed it. When we got back in October, the MOT was 5mo out - but we were heading straight to a pre-booked test, and our insurer's paperwork explicitly didn't say anything about MOT, only that the vehicle was "roadworthy". It passed straight away. If we'd been ANPR pinged between Harwich docks and the (model specialist) tester in Grantham, we'd have taken it on the chin, because it would have been a fair cop.
But, then, we had current tax and the insurance was a proper UK policy on MID.
Why shouldn't someone be allowed to tour the world in a vehicle for as long as they want?
I seem to recall there is a theoretical issue if a UK vehicle is SORNed, but on roads outside the UK - but there is no enforcement mechanism.
An owner could leave the UK, SORN it and leave it at that. (As long as they comply with insurance regulations in any country). Book an MOT just before landing back in the UK.
I would be tempted to export the vehicle as far as DVLA are concerned, when (and if) it ends up back in the UK, reregister it again (which would involve getting an MOT) - it would get its old number plate back.
caziques said:
Why shouldn't someone be allowed to tour the world in a vehicle for as long as they want?
TooMany2cvs said:
bobtail4x4 said:
IIRC you can "test" the car in any EU country, mate of mine used to keep his car full time in Croatia but once a year would drive into italy for a test.
You can do if you like, but it won't make any difference. For a UK reg car to be legal, a UK MOT is required - and there ain't no test centres outside the UK.
TooMany2cvs said:
When we were away for a year and a half, we took the view that lack of MOT wasn't the most serious offence in the world. We tested the van before we went in May. When the tax was up in January, we re-taxed it.
Why should/would you bother taxing a vehicle unnecessarily for several months ? Without being picky you seem to have decided which legislation you can be bothered with ?speedyguy said:
caziques said:
Why shouldn't someone be allowed to tour the world in a vehicle for as long as they want?
speedyguy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
bobtail4x4 said:
IIRC you can "test" the car in any EU country, mate of mine used to keep his car full time in Croatia but once a year would drive into italy for a test.
You can do if you like, but it won't make any difference. For a UK reg car to be legal, a UK MOT is required - and there ain't no test centres outside the UK.from new, then 2yr", and everybody+dog assumed that meant we'd be flooded with shagged sheds? Well, the French CT is still happy with pop-rivetted structural repairs, and there are plenty of cars on their roads with the mortal remains of the sills hanging off.
speedyguy said:
TooMany2cvs said:
When we were away for a year and a half, we took the view that lack of MOT wasn't the most serious offence in the world. We tested the van before we went in May. When the tax was up in January, we re-taxed it.
Why should/would you bother taxing a vehicle unnecessarily for several months ? Without being picky you seem to have decided which legislation you can be bothered with ?Why tax it? Because, imho, SORNing then continuing to use is a sin of commission, whilst not MOTing is a sin of omission and more minor. Look at the penalties here in the UK. Using a SORNed car? Confiscation of the car, big fine. Using a roadworthy car with expired MOT? Small fine, no points, slap on wrist. Around the time the test expired, we were in Albania and the Balkans. Apart from a short period passing mainly through Germany (two year tests, which we were well within), we were in former Communist countries (some EU, some not, one wasn't then but is now) right up until we got back - if you think our lack of MOT would have been a significant issue there compared to local vehicle standards...
B'sides, even passing through D/B/NL, we were on our way back to a pre-booked MOT, so arguably legal.
TooMany2cvs said:
The insurers might call it a green card, but it isn't. Whether they extend your full coverage to you or not is purely internal to them, and totally separate to whether they provide the legal minimum - which they HAVE to, by law, for the entire duration of the policy. All a real live green card proves, in those countries which haven't signed up to the EU Motor Insurance Directives is whether you have insurance for that country or not.
Most continental insurers are quite happy to hand 'em out, whilst many UK insurers still seem to regard a day trip to France as a bit dangerously radical.
What insurer was that?Most continental insurers are quite happy to hand 'em out, whilst many UK insurers still seem to regard a day trip to France as a bit dangerously radical.
UK insurers think BIH, where i have a place, is still too risky.
marshalla said:
As far as DVLA are concerned, taking the vehicle out of the country for 12 months or more constitutes a permanent export : https://www.gov.uk/taking-vehicles-out-of-uk/for-1...
Then when i return i import it again?I presume i keep most of the V5 to show 'officials' in countries i pass through.?
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