Why are narrow country lanes often NSL?

[rockford22]

Just a general query, no NIP pending! I drive through rural lanes in Somerset on a daily basis and often see large spells of wide open residential roads at the typical 30mph limit that draw in to lanes that are dangerously narrow and inevitably display a NSL sign.

My thoughts are, if the speed limit displays NSL and the road is clearly unsafe to even maintain a speed of 20mph why do the local councils simply not just apply a lower limit?

My query stems from regularly encountering cars tearing down narrow lanes within the speed limit but at speeds which often require near emergency stops if seen face-on round a blind corner, how would this be viewed from a legal standpoint?


Cheers.

[Mr Classic]

I assume its as every road used to be nsl then was reduced due to accidents etc?

[gforceg]

I think it's from a time when rural roads were de-restricted (probably the wrong term) and the default was 60mph. That was in the days when many cars could hardly manage 60.

I agree there are sections of NSL roads where 30 would be pushing it but the system harks back to a gentler era of comomon sense and no "because yer werth it" mentality. Remember children, it's a limit, not a target...

Having said that, I really don't want a change to a lower limit out of towns, although it's going that way already.

[Who me ?]

[Very Cynical hat] -because few of the WRI/speed councillor freaks types live out there, and a reduction would-be pointless as it could not be enforced .Where would /could the enforcing vans/bikes sit ,and fixed cameras would most likely cost more to repair than they "earned"[/Very Cynical hat].

[TooMany2cvs]

rockford22 said:

I drive through rural lanes in Somerset on a daily basis and often see large spells of wide open residential roads at the typical 30mph limit that draw in to lanes that are dangerously narrow and inevitably display a NSL sign.

Because the national speed limit is 60mph.
If the limit is going to be reduced below that, then repeater signs are needed. If there are streetlights, they take the place of repeaters.

rockford22 said:

My query stems from regularly encountering cars tearing down narrow lanes within the speed limit but at speeds which often require near emergency stops if seen face-on round a blind corner, how would this be viewed from a legal standpoint?

Here's a clue: Would it make a big difference if the limit was 40?

Is the problem the speed limit, or drivers failing to drive to the conditions?

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 14th June 09:12

[Foppo]

The problem is speed limit and drivers driving to the conditions.40mph on some of these small country roads is fast enough.It is usually the locals who think they know every corner and dip in the road.

A few weeks ago a young Motorcycle Copper was swiped off his bike and killed not far from me.

A female in a Landrover came tearing over the hill within this 60 mile limit and lost control.

[Rick448]

It's a 60mph limit not target. I'd also think it may have something to do with the cost of having to put repeater limit signs up.

[V8 Fettler]

There was a time when the speed limit on derestricted country lanes was 70mph. There was even a time when there was no limit. The real issue is the competence of the driver, particularly with newer, bigger cars that are more difficult to place on the road. You should be able to place your vehicle with the nearside wheels two inches or less from the verge, this can be a real challenge in a modern car, particularly if you're on the mobile.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

V8 Fettler said:

There was a time when the speed limit on derestricted country lanes was 70mph.

Really? I know that there were no speed limits in the past, but never heard of the 70 thing. I can remember when NSL was 50 for a while when fuel was in short supply.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

V8 Fettler said:

There was a time when the speed limit on derestricted country lanes was 70mph.

Really? I know that there were no speed limits in the past, but never heard of the 70 thing. I can remember when NSL was 50 for a while when fuel was in short supply.

Indeed, was so for four months

In 1966, at the end of the 4-month trial of a blanket 70 mph (113 km/h) speed limit on previously unrestricted roads

[Shuvi McTupya]

[quote=Who me ?][Very Cynical hat] -because few of the WRI/speed councillor freaks types live out there, and a reduction would-be pointless as it could not be enforced .Where would /could the enforcing vans/bikes sit ,and fixed cameras would most likely cost more to repair than they "earned"[/Very Cynical hat].
[/quote]

Agreed.

I live out in the sticks in north Scotland , all the roads around my house are less than two cars wide and NSL. I have no issue with it as I now find myself in a great position. I can go belting about all over the place ( especially at night) without ever going over the limit, or seeing any kind of enforcement .

I have been up here for three years and I now have a clean license for the first time in decades after living down south and regularly getting tickets at a few miles an hour above some arbitrary number...

I have not been on a proper motorway in over two years!

[CGJJ]

Perhaps it is one of the final bastions of allowing the British public to assess
their own risk rather than wrap them in a politically correct piece of cotton wool.
I recently visited Germany and was astounded at the excellent level of driving skills and
Road etiquette when the general public are left to make their own decisions regarding
speed.

[Cooperman]

Before December 1965 there was no overall speed limit unless specifically signed.
It was wonderful! I recall doing 130 mph on the M1 two hours before the 70 limit came in whilst driving a Jag Mk.2 3.8 with a D-Type modified engine and was totally legal.
Then it was 70 unless signed lower. In 1974 during the fuel crisis it went to a blanket 50, which virtually everyone ignored, then back to 70 on DC's and 60 on all other roads, unless signed lower.
To try to impose lower limits on ordinary country roads would be totally unenforceable (and would stop all road rallying!).

[TooMany2cvs]

CGJJ said:

Perhaps it is one of the final bastions of allowing the British public to assess their own risk

So it's perfectly safe and appropriate to drive on every other road in the country at the speed limit, at all times, no matter what the weather or traffic conditions?

No, thought not.

[Dr Jekyll]

Cooperman said:

Before December 1965 there was no overall speed limit unless specifically signed.
It was wonderful! I recall doing 130 mph on the M1 two hours before the 70 limit came in whilst driving a Jag Mk.2 3.8 with a D-Type modified engine and was totally legal.
Then it was 70 unless signed lower. In 1974 during the fuel crisis it went to a blanket 50, which virtually everyone ignored, then back to 70 on DC's and 60 on all other roads, unless signed lower.
To try to impose lower limits on ordinary country roads would be totally unenforceable (and would stop all road rallying!).

During the mid 70s there was a 60 limit on DCs and 50 on singles even after the motorway limit went back to 70. When these limits were raised in 77 there was no effect on either speeds or accidents.

[Cooperman]

TooMany2cvs said:

So it's perfectly safe and appropriate to drive on every other road in the country at the speed limit, at all times, no matter what the weather or traffic conditions?

No, thought not.

That's not what he said, by any stretch of the imagination.

[NotStig]

This is one of the few areas left where you have to actually use your judgement and be treated like an adult when you're driving. Long may that be the case! You still have to observe the 'being able to stop within the distance you can see' rule, so it doesn't mean that you HAVE to drive at 60.

However, given that most of the people in front of me on such roads stick rigidly to their imagined 40mph limit, I don't think everyone is actually clear what the limit is.

Let's not push for reduced limits on these roads, shall we? I am getting really sick of pandering to the 'speed kills' brigade, so many limits are being reduced for no reason other than a tiny minority are unable to stop their cars bouncing off each other, or bits of road furniture. Reducing speed limits won't stop them crashing, because they're too busy looking at their phones to notice anyway.

[CGJJ]

TooMany2cvs said:

So it's perfectly safe and appropriate to drive on every other road in the country at the speed limit, at all times, no matter what the weather or traffic conditions?

No, thought not.

Did you just ask a question and then answer it yourself?

Had you waited for my reply I would have said that clearly
allowing the public to assess their own risk means they can make a decision
as to what speed to travel based on road conditions,weather,local knowledge and a
whole host of factors such as their vehicles braking capability,weight,load,suspension etc.

Edited by CGJJ on Sunday 14th June 10:33

[TooMany2cvs]

Cooperman said:

TooMany2cvs said:

So it's perfectly safe and appropriate to drive on every other road in the country at the speed limit, at all times, no matter what the weather or traffic conditions?

No, thought not.

That's not what he said, by any stretch of the imagination.

Good. Then it's far from "one of the final bastions", because every single road in the country requires the driver to decide what's a safe and appropriate speed, and always will do until and unless we can guarantee that the speed limit is ALWAYS safe and appropriate.

So a rural single-track having an NSL is really no different to an urban 30 or even 20 limit. The driver needs to look and think.

[Durzel]

Tangentially related but these roads cause problems for things like Google Maps too (and I assume others).

For reasons I've never quite understood Google Maps is obsessed with sending me down single track roads, and I can only assume that the algorithm calculates the distance divided by the speed limit and figures "this is clearly faster than that lovely tarmaced main road that is only a 50mph". Problem is, as suggested, you'd fly off the road doing anywhere near NSL speeds on these roads, if you didn't slam into someone attempting it. That's even before considering how typically rutted these roads are - I end up having to do like 20mph down them just to avoid buckling a wheel.

Wouldn't be so bad if Google Maps had an option to avoid single track roads.