Cloning - Now a huge problem??
Discussion
www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/westmidlands/series7/car_cloning.shtml
It would seem the speed camera cameras have forced many to take drastic but convenient action. ?
Read the comments!!!
It would seem the speed camera cameras have forced many to take drastic but convenient action. ?
Read the comments!!!
All that Hi-tech Scamera/ANPR/CONgestion Charging kit rendered useless by a 'sign' 
And can you imagine what a big criminal business this will become if/when the governments new 'fleece per mile with numberplates and microchips' system comes online? Got a Range Rover but don't fancy the running costs? Well, someone will nick the transponder and plates off a Micra for you - enjoy the drive, someone else foots the bill until you're found out, by which time you've got another one already 
I've heard of van/ car hire companies - (no names mentioned) that have been reputed to have quite a number vehicles interchanged with the new style plates not tallying with the tax discs, i.e. - 1 letter different. When the driver does get a ticket, swop the plate !! simple but efficient. If they do get a pull for it - claim a plate manufacturing error and off they get scot free..
One for Streetcop.
This'll be another camera policy which the government will trumpet as a grear success, but in reality will do nothing to eliminate or reduce really dangerous or criminal activities.
sigh
Very first comment in article said:
The worrying thing is not only has someone else got our licence plate number we were unable to have the fine dropped as it appears they must also have our tax disk details as well!
Streetcop from older thread said:www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=10&t=119453&h=0
So the law abiding Joe Public must have a clear VRM such that they can later be picked up for a horrific offence, like breaking the posted limit. Meanwhile, Joe Scumbag does something different he clones a plate such that he cannot get caught when he breaks the law. Coupled with a little identity fraud, there is nothing any amount of ANPR/scameras can do about it.
The VRM law works in favour of criminals, laughable really.
Not really...
Street
This'll be another camera policy which the government will trumpet as a grear success, but in reality will do nothing to eliminate or reduce really dangerous or criminal activities.
sigh
I wonder how much more cloning now goes on in London due to the Kengestion charge and how much worse it will be getting if/when the scheme is extended to the suburbs.
Add to that all the local councils elsewhere in the country who are champing at the bit to get their grubby little mitts on the cash from a congestion charging scheme and we have the makings of an epidemic.
Cloning well enough to fool APNR or any other automated camera system is laughably easy and bearing in mind that the DVLA seems happy to give out the details of registered keepers for a nominal fee, it must be simple to create a clone that would take a "proper" investigation to detect.
The system is leaking at the seams and once again its the honest, tax-paying silent majority that is bearing the cost.
Add to that all the local councils elsewhere in the country who are champing at the bit to get their grubby little mitts on the cash from a congestion charging scheme and we have the makings of an epidemic.
Cloning well enough to fool APNR or any other automated camera system is laughably easy and bearing in mind that the DVLA seems happy to give out the details of registered keepers for a nominal fee, it must be simple to create a clone that would take a "proper" investigation to detect.
The system is leaking at the seams and once again its the honest, tax-paying silent majority that is bearing the cost.
Don't need criminal minds to mess with the system, DVLA are doing a good enough job by themselves...
Third of DVLA car records wrong
Third of DVLA car records wrong
And yet more spin is generated……
It’s a “vehicle cloning issue” is it?
Perhaps if the prosecutions for crimes like speeding and evading congestion charges were actually sustained by evidence of the individual concerned and not just the vehicle, the problem would not be so wide spread.
You will never stop the bank robber type from car cloning – this has been occurring for decades (someone I knew went on holiday, leaving his car in the long term car park, when he got back his car ID had been used by the Bader Meinhoff Gang – that was 20 odd years ago). The difference is when a prosecution is raised for bank robbery; they actually collect some substantial evidence.
Bring back the BiB to police our country properly once again and get rid of these automated systems. These cameras don’t do the job in terms of making it safer and now appear to actually increase crime in terms of widespread identity issues.
>> Edited by Evocator on Friday 28th January 10:50
It’s a “vehicle cloning issue” is it?
Perhaps if the prosecutions for crimes like speeding and evading congestion charges were actually sustained by evidence of the individual concerned and not just the vehicle, the problem would not be so wide spread.
You will never stop the bank robber type from car cloning – this has been occurring for decades (someone I knew went on holiday, leaving his car in the long term car park, when he got back his car ID had been used by the Bader Meinhoff Gang – that was 20 odd years ago). The difference is when a prosecution is raised for bank robbery; they actually collect some substantial evidence.
Bring back the BiB to police our country properly once again and get rid of these automated systems. These cameras don’t do the job in terms of making it safer and now appear to actually increase crime in terms of widespread identity issues.
>> Edited by Evocator on Friday 28th January 10:50
Relying on a strip of easily-manufactured plastic with letters and numbers on it (ie. the numberplate) for indentification of a vehicle is laughable really, and makes the whole concept of anything that relies on it (ANPR, speed enforcement, congestion charge, proposed pay-per-mile, etc.) deeply flawed.
I'm no fan of black boxes and the like, but until we have an additional method of identification (like a low-range transponder that returns the vehicle's VIN when interrogated) that is far more difficult to clone, this problem will be rife.
Very worryingly, it also lays the burden of proof on the victim. Every motorist who is the victim of cloning and who are accused of a traffic offence that was actually commited by a cloned vehicle has to be able to prove that it wasn't them. How many of us have proof of the true whereabouts of our car(s) at all times?
I'm no fan of black boxes and the like, but until we have an additional method of identification (like a low-range transponder that returns the vehicle's VIN when interrogated) that is far more difficult to clone, this problem will be rife.
Very worryingly, it also lays the burden of proof on the victim. Every motorist who is the victim of cloning and who are accused of a traffic offence that was actually commited by a cloned vehicle has to be able to prove that it wasn't them. How many of us have proof of the true whereabouts of our car(s) at all times?
we have all seen cars with cloned plates/not registered to current keepers. They are the ones who quite happily bowl through scameras without a hint of brakes.
Surely the best way to reduce these is to have an unmarked vehicle by the scamera and a bunch of BiBs parked around the next corner.
Surely the best way to reduce these is to have an unmarked vehicle by the scamera and a bunch of BiBs parked around the next corner.
mk6fiesta said:
My Grandfather had the plates stolen off his 3 week old car at the end of November.
He has a letter from the police which he has had to send out twice to scamera partnerships to prove it wasnt he who was speeding.
That was in early December, not heard anything since then.
Alex
Hmm... Interesting...
So all you need to do to make you immune to all future NIPs is to nick your own plates, report them stolen, and get a letter from the police?
'King Deadly said:
My Grandfather had the plates stolen off his 3 week old car at the end of November.
He has a letter from the police which he has had to send out twice to scamera partnerships to prove it wasnt he who was speeding.
That was in early December, not heard anything since then.
Alex
Hmm... Interesting...
So all you need to do to make you immune to all future NIPs is to nick your own plates, report them stolen, and get a letter from the police?
Of course, any identifying marks/stickers, etc, could be a giveaway.
I used to think that ANPR was a great idea, which could not be beaten, until I realised that a determined scrote who wanted to properly beat the system, need only do a little homework to succeed. Finding out details about the clonee (assuming the car is similar), then regurgitating them to BiB during a stop (will eventually happen if they drive like a scrote, but lack of trafpol doesn't help the odds) will be enough for them to be let go. Their new NIP/producer will be thrown straight out the window and the hunt for a new plate will begin.
I'm no criminal mastermind, but that wasn't too difficult to figure out.
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