The recent "Apple Incident"......coppers opinions!
Discussion
OK. I just want to see what coppers opinions on this forum are on the recent apple incident on the news.
In my opinion, I think it was blown completely out of proportion and was an absolute waste of police time and resources. A slap on the wrists would have sufficed but this whole incident has brought embarrasment on the police force.
Additionally, I also read about an incident in the Motoring section of the Sunday Times where a person was given a fine for playing his music too loud after asking a policeman for directions.
What's going on these days!?
In my opinion, I think it was blown completely out of proportion and was an absolute waste of police time and resources. A slap on the wrists would have sufficed but this whole incident has brought embarrasment on the police force.
Additionally, I also read about an incident in the Motoring section of the Sunday Times where a person was given a fine for playing his music too loud after asking a policeman for directions.
What's going on these days!?
If I thought that the eating of 'anything' whilst driving meant the driver 'wasn't in proper control of the vehicle' I would certainly stop them. If I wasn't happy that my 'advice' at the kerbside was getting through; I would issue a fixed penalty ticket.
If that person decided not to pay the ticket and in turn the CPS decided to 'run the job' and take the driver to court. Totally out of my hands.
If that person decided not to pay the ticket and in turn the CPS decided to 'run the job' and take the driver to court. Totally out of my hands.
beanbag said:
Surely then, smoking a cigarette, changing a radio station, or even changing the temperature on your climate control would therefore class as not being in proper control of your vehicle?
>> Edited by beanbag on Monday 31st January 10:39
Absolutely. Each case is judged on it's merits and how the driver actually performs...
It's just that by the very nature of an apple, you can't hold it securely between your fingers like a cigarette, and it generally takes longer to eat an apple than to change the radio station/temp control...
The worse possible offenders are the canned drink consumers....who tip their head fully back to get the last drop of liquid from the can...thus leaving themselves staring at the interior roof of their car..
beanbag said:
Surely then, smoking a cigarette, changing a radio station, or even changing the temperature on your climate control would therefore class as not being in proper control of your vehicle?
Here's a point (from a M.O.T.P.).
Any and all of the above could indeed constitute not being in proper control of your vehicle.
Many, many smokers, for example, will choose their moment to light up. On a long straight. One hand on the wheel at all times. Not looking down but actually at the road all the time.
Similarly lots of drivers will be handed an apple by their passenger. One hand on the wheel at all times take a few bites. Hand it back.
In control at all times!
Then there's fluffy numpty who insists on driving in a built up area with a busy street scene near a school whilst noshing on an apple, needing to let go of the wheel to change gear and letting the self-centring mechanism have the car lurch all over the road.
That's NOT in control.
Don't get paranoid. If you ARE in control Trafpol won't mind if you're being fed crisps by your passenger. If, otoh, you habitually spend time fumbling about in the passenger footwell whilst driving you can expect some points on your licence if spotted!
Applemunch girl probably got what she deserved, frankly. You can argue whether or not it was worth it. Personally I believe it was...
So wouldn't a telling off and a slap on the wrist be a sufficient warning?
It's worked for me in my younger CBT days on my 125. (Never take your L plates off.....) The policeman gave me a bollocking and it scared the life out of me. Needless to say I never did it again.
Obviously I'm not aware of what exactly happened that day but a fine just seems a little ott for a first offence and chances are she won't do it again in a hurry.
It's worked for me in my younger CBT days on my 125. (Never take your L plates off.....) The policeman gave me a bollocking and it scared the life out of me. Needless to say I never did it again.
Obviously I'm not aware of what exactly happened that day but a fine just seems a little ott for a first offence and chances are she won't do it again in a hurry.
beanbag said:
So wouldn't a telling off and a slap on the wrist be a sufficient warning?
Obviously I'm not aware of what exactly happened that day but a fine just seems a little ott for a first offence and chances are she won't do it again in a hurry.
Obviously we can only speculate as neither you or I were there..
However, as for telling off/slap on the wrist...Sometimes it works and you can tell it will...other times it wont....
I've stopped many many people for a minor motoring offence; felt that they weren't heeding my advice and instead issued a fixed penalty ticket; only to be told "I THINK YOU'RE A BIT HARSH OFFICER. THE LAST COPPER WHO STOPPED ME FOR THIS OFFENCE ONLY GAVE ME A VERBAL WARNING".
Look at how much THAT advice was heeded...
It's something that comes with experience and it's not an exact science...but there is a time and a place for 'bollockings' and there's a time and a place 'to cost them'.
One final note...I've issued some good bollockings in the past and tore a strip off someone for doing something silly..(instead of points/fine..hoping as you say they might learn better)..only to later discover that the driver continued their journey; to the police station to complain about my 'attitude'.
Makes you wonder whether it's worth such discretion. ie: be polite, yes sir, no sir..there's your fixed penalty ticket. No complaint against me...then..
Streetcop said:
The worse possible offenders are the canned drink consumers....who tip their head fully back to get the last drop of liquid from the can...thus leaving themselves staring at the interior roof of their car..
spot on. saw one today, proceeded to enter the bus lane and I swear I thought he wasn't going to look up again until he had actually impacted the bus queue. retard.
beanbag said:
No complaint against me...then..
I'll let you off this time.....
Thanks pal..
You can see what I mean though, can't you. A small number of whingers has spoiled it for the rest..
I know BiB who's motto is; "IF IT'S WORTH STOPPING. IT'S WORTH TICKETTING"..
This has been brought on by members of the public pissing up their back in the past..
The only problem is that for the Bib it's PR disaster. Look at the adverse publicity they've had in the serious press and on radio/tv.
For such a trivial offence the £10k it cost could have been better spend and, more importantly, be seen to have been better spent.
No-one can convince Mr. Average that pursuing a young lady for, as it appears, eating an apple whilst driving and not having an accident whilst doing so, can compare to failing to proceed against young scroats who commit criminal damage, assalt, shoplifting, etc. It's those offences, however, which seem to be dealt with by way of a police caution of a very lenient sentance in the Mag. Courts.
Now, that's the real problem. Apple eating is seenas easy to prosecute as the accused will probably just give in and pay. Victimless crime again and easy to target.
It's the perception of police priorities which needs addressing.
Maybe she deserved it, maybe not, but it is seen as a spiteful prosecution nevertheless.
For such a trivial offence the £10k it cost could have been better spend and, more importantly, be seen to have been better spent.
No-one can convince Mr. Average that pursuing a young lady for, as it appears, eating an apple whilst driving and not having an accident whilst doing so, can compare to failing to proceed against young scroats who commit criminal damage, assalt, shoplifting, etc. It's those offences, however, which seem to be dealt with by way of a police caution of a very lenient sentance in the Mag. Courts.
Now, that's the real problem. Apple eating is seenas easy to prosecute as the accused will probably just give in and pay. Victimless crime again and easy to target.
It's the perception of police priorities which needs addressing.
Maybe she deserved it, maybe not, but it is seen as a spiteful prosecution nevertheless.
Cooperman said:
The only problem is that for the Bib it's PR disaster. Look at the adverse publicity they've had in the serious press and on radio/tv.
For such a trivial offence the £10k it cost could have been better spend and, more importantly, be seen to have been better spent.
Because the media love it..
Pity they didn't jump on the bandwagon as much with this story..(as already posted)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4212629.stm
I think the problem is not the prosecution of the apple eater.
It's the grossly disproportionate response, and expense, to someone taking a complaint to the media.
It also comes from an organisation, here anyway, which is continually demanding massive increases in its expenditure - almost weekly articles in the EDP.
It's the grossly disproportionate response, and expense, to someone taking a complaint to the media.
It also comes from an organisation, here anyway, which is continually demanding massive increases in its expenditure - almost weekly articles in the EDP.
Don said:
Applemunch girl probably got what she deserved, frankly. You can argue whether or not it was worth it. Personally I believe it was...
Personally I'd say that there were probably far more productive things to do with an air support unit and a TAC than gather evidence for DWODC whilst eating an apple.
CPS guidelines - there has to be a realistic chance of a conviction and the prosecution has to be in the public interest which I would argue, on the facts available, it may not have been...
Streetcop said:
The only problem is that for the Bib it's PR disaster. Look at the adverse publicity they've had in the serious press and on radio/tv.
For such a trivial offence the £10k it cost could have been better spend and, more importantly, be seen to have been better spent.
Because the media love it..
Pity they didn't jump on the bandwagon as much with this story..(as already posted)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4212629.stm
Was big round here! CPS deffo had lumps after it. Perhaps the BIB who stopped the woman with the apple would have had more success if he stopped the woman for a VALID reason. After all HE did say that the car was under control and there were no other vehicles or pedestrians around. Hence why did he pull her over???
What constantly amazes me is that our 'lords & masters' seem unable to actually fathom out the sort of law enforcement activities wanted by Mr. Average.
This applies to our senior police officers, the CPS, the Home Office and our esteemed gov't.
For example, it seems that the average UK citizen wants:
Reductions in illegal immigration
Control of the 'travellers' and their illegal activities.
Harsher punishment for habitual minor criminals
Reduction in street drunkeness and loutish behavior
Less paperwork for our police officers
More police presence 'on the streets'
Better anti-drug policing.
At the sametime, Mr. Average doesn't want:
Stupid prosecutions for minor offences (like apple eating!)
Political correctness controlling the way our laws are enforced
Speed cameras placed for revenue collection combined with lies about their effectiveness
Erosion of our human rights by the use of specially drafted legislation, like classifying suspected terrorists as lunatics so that they can be locked up without trial
These are just examples, and maybe I speak for 'middle England' and not for the majority. I don't know, but if these things are what 'we' want and don't want, why can those in power not see it. Are they just plain stupid, or very clever and manipulative. Certainly some who work within the system are being manipulated.
This applies to our senior police officers, the CPS, the Home Office and our esteemed gov't.
For example, it seems that the average UK citizen wants:
Reductions in illegal immigration
Control of the 'travellers' and their illegal activities.
Harsher punishment for habitual minor criminals
Reduction in street drunkeness and loutish behavior
Less paperwork for our police officers
More police presence 'on the streets'
Better anti-drug policing.
At the sametime, Mr. Average doesn't want:
Stupid prosecutions for minor offences (like apple eating!)
Political correctness controlling the way our laws are enforced
Speed cameras placed for revenue collection combined with lies about their effectiveness
Erosion of our human rights by the use of specially drafted legislation, like classifying suspected terrorists as lunatics so that they can be locked up without trial
These are just examples, and maybe I speak for 'middle England' and not for the majority. I don't know, but if these things are what 'we' want and don't want, why can those in power not see it. Are they just plain stupid, or very clever and manipulative. Certainly some who work within the system are being manipulated.
Cooperman said:
What constantly amazes me is that our 'lords & masters' seem unable to actually fathom out the sort of law enforcement activities wanted by Mr. Average.
.....
These are just examples, and maybe I speak for 'middle England' and not for the majority. I don't know, but if these things are what 'we' want and don't want, why can those in power not see it. Are they just plain stupid, or very clever and manipulative. Certainly some who work within the system are being manipulated.
I'm sure that the government is well aware of what people actually want. However, they can't deliver it. Therefore, they have to do something else and pretend it's either the same thing or a valid equivalent. While we know it isn't, there's enough of them to keep swearing black's white that eventually people get confused and move on. It's just one example of government behaviour causing people to turn off from politics in general.
IMHO of course.
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