Trailer weight specifications

[QBee]

Well I tried calling DVSA (the piss-artists formerly known as VOSA) for advice, and was left hanging on the phone for ever.

So as always I am turning to the accumulated knowledge on PH for the right advice.


I have bought a single axle trailer to tow my TVR to and from track days.....




........pauses for jokes about reliability and TVRs




Thing is, I have done about 25 track days in my TVR now and never failed to get home - no accidents, breakdowns or punctures - but now I am venturing further from home I have decided it is time not to push my luck any longer, and also be able to take more sets of spare wheels and tyres, and tools etc with me, as well as camping gear. So my trusty Saab estate is being pressed into service to tow the car.

I intentionally bought a light weight single axle trailer for two reasons:
1. The Saab has an 1800 kg towing limit
2. The single axle trailer was cheap!

The trailer chassis was clearly of caravan origin, and is German and stamped, both on the frame and the tow hitch, with max weight 1600 kg. It had presumably been "Clarksonned" , and so just the chassis was left. The car trailer was built on top of the caravan chassis by the guy who sold it to me.

I have sorted out a few issues with it, and have taken it today to the weighbridge, with the TVR on board, to see what it all weighs.
Answer, 1420 kg. So far so good.....I think.

Gratuitous photo:



What is exercising me is the tyres. They are steel belted light commercial Nankangs, 165R13C 94/92 Q and on the side they have moulded "max load 670kg at 65psi".
My maths is good enough to work out that 2 x 670 kg = 1340kg.

I will risk being called a numpty - does anyone who actually knows about trailers know if that means my trailer with car on is illegal and indeed possibly dangerous?
I am not about to risk prosecution, or an accident, with £15,000 worth of car on the trailer, for the sake of changing two tyres for the next version up.

I would also like to know if, with the trailer stamped as 1600 kg, the tyres have to be rated at least 800kg each for it all to be legal?

In which case I need new hubs as well as wheels and tyres, as the 4 x 100 hubs aren't man enough for 800kg load tyres/wheels, ie you cannot get suitable wheels in 4 x 100 size.

Thanks in advance and apologies for this being a tad boring, but I want to get it right and am struggling to find reliable answers anywhere else.

Edited by QBee on Wednesday 22 July 17:00

[rewc]

What does the plate on the axle say?

[QBee]

Not sure I have seen one on the axle - I will get the car off and have a look

[jagracer]

Personally I think you are mad to put that car on a single axle trailer but that's just my opinion. When you weighed it did you weigh just the trailer with it connected to the car (or did you disconnect it) as some of the weight will be taken by the tow hitch so you may not be overweight on the axle or tyres. The problem with that setup is you have no spare capacity for distributing weight if you need to carry tools, tyres, fuel etc and you may well be overweight on the rear axle of Saab.
I would get a twin axle trailer, mine weighs 500kg has a gross weight of 1900 so with my 1 ton car on I have plenty spare for all the extras.
I expect Rog will be along soon to give you/us the proper legal info.

BTW, if the plate says it's good for 1600kg then the axle will be OK, It's the tyres you need to be concerned about

Edited by jagracer on Wednesday 22 July 17:31

[R0G]

If there is a weight plate then that is the plated MAM unless the tyre load rating totals less than that

With no weight plate or if there is one but the basic chassis has been modified making the weight plate void then the total of the tyre load ratings is deemed to be the legal MAM

May seem daft but that's how the authorities work on legal weights

Under C&U regs it can be deemed less if say the only axle is constructed to allow X amount of KG

If you have a B+E licence then ok but if only got B please state plated GVW of towing vehicle

[TooMany2cvs]

QBee said:

The trailer chassis was clearly of caravan origin, and is German and stamped, both on the frame and the tow hitch, with max weight 1600 kg.

taken it today to the weighbridge, with the TVR on board, to see what it all weighs.
Answer, 1420 kg. So far so good.....I think.

What is exercising me is the tyres. They are steel belted light commercial Nankangs, 165R13C 94/92 Q and on the side they have moulded "max load 670kg at 65psi".
My maths is good enough to work out that 2 x 670 kg = 1340kg.

I will risk being called a numpty - does anyone who actually knows about trailers know if that means my trailer with car on is illegal

Yes. Tyre ratings have to be up to the MAM of the trailer.

QBee said:

and indeed possibly dangerous?

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think your biggest worry is to be 40kg each over the tyre load rating, but... They'll wear rapidly, too, and you'll want to be razor-sharp on tyre pressures.

QBee said:

I would also like to know if, with the trailer stamped as 1600 kg, the tyres have to be rated at least 800kg each for it all to be legal?

Yep. At least 100 load rating.

QBee said:

In which case I need new hubs as well as wheels and tyres, as the 4 x 100 hubs aren't man enough for 800kg load tyres/wheels, ie you cannot get suitable wheels in 4 x 100 size.

What width are the rims? If they're 5x13, you're fine on the 185s here. If they're 5.5", you'll be fine on the 195/50s.
http://www.trailertek.com/acatalog/13_inch_tyres.h...

Failing that...

[QBee]

Wow. All my birthdays and Christmasses in one go. Lots of useful info.

No plate on the axle.
I detached the car and took it off the weigh bridge, so the weight is just trailer and load.
I won't be carrying a huge amount of stuff in the car, will fold the seats down, and will put the heaviest items as far forward as possible. No more than 100-120 kg of load, not as much as two rear seat adult passengers.
I have experimented with the car's position on the trailer and can report that while it has some weight on the hitch with the car fully forward, with it a foot further back the trailer pivots down at the back. So I plan to put it just forward of balanced.
I tested the weight on the hitch by using the jockey wheel to raise the front of the car and it is not heavy.

So my biggest issues are the single axle and the tyre rating, if I am distilling your advice correctly.
I will simply buy new wheels and tyres to get to the correct MAM. Plus a spare wheel. And will look out for a light twin axle trailer.
Even with new wheels and tyres, a new jockey wheel, new LED lights, new rear support posts and a new winch, it will only stand me at £850, so it should sell easily to a Caterham owner, should I decide to go twin axle.

Edited by QBee on Wednesday 22 July 19:42

[TooMany2cvs]

QBee said:

I tested the weight on the hitch by using the jockey wheel to raise the front of the car and it is not heavy.

You don't want too much nose weight - but you don't want too little. Max on the tow car's probably 50kg? A bit under that. Heave and a grunt and a fart to lift.

[QBee]

TooMany2cvs said:

What width are the rims? If they're 5x13, you're fine on the 185s here. If they're 5.5", you'll be fine on the 195/50s.
http://www.trailertek.com/acatalog/13_inch_tyres.h...

Failing that...

I will get one off tomorrow and check the width.
If I am reading it right, those GT Savero Maxmilers in 185/70 106/104N look like what I am after.........steel belt and braces. 900 kg per tyre. Worth the extra tenner over the next best choice,

I'd just like to thank every one of you for your excellent contributions. PH proves its worth once again.

[BertBert]

The legalities seem covered, but there is no way on earth I'd be towing the TVR on a single axle trailer.

Hope it doesn't turn out as bad as I suspect it will be.

Bert

[Bebee]

BertBert said:

The legalities seem covered, but there is no way on earth I'd be towing the TVR on a single axle trailer.

Hope it doesn't turn out as bad as I suspect it will be.

Bert

This

[TooMany2cvs]

QBee said:

I will get one off tomorrow and check the width.

It'll almost certainly be stamped between the bolt holes or on the rim - no need to remove the wheel.

QBee said:

If I am reading it right, those GT Savero Maxmilers in 185/70 106/104N look like what I am after...

Bit chunky, I think. I was looking at the 100-rated anonymous penultimate 185/80s. Bit taller than your 165s, yes, which might cause an arch issue. But I suspect the chunky GTs are a bit tall for /70s.

[roddo]

I'm a believer in if it looks right it probably is.......
On this occasion that's never right!!

[surveyor]

BertBert said:

The legalities seem covered, but there is no way on earth I'd be towing the TVR on a single axle trailer.

Hope it doesn't turn out as bad as I suspect it will be.

Bert

I can see what you mean - but plenty of single axle caravans which catch far more wind. It will be important to load correctly every time though, and if there is no stabiliser on the hitch it might be worth fitting one.

[QBee]

We have a blade type stabiliser - my son in law has one for his single axle caravan, but never uses it. I will test it with the bathroom scales as recommended by the Caravan Club.

[Roo]

Bebee said:

BertBert said:

The legalities seem covered, but there is no way on earth I'd be towing the TVR on a single axle trailer.

Hope it doesn't turn out as bad as I suspect it will be.

Bert

This

No disrespect but,

That does look like a fishtail accident waiting to happen.

[DBSV8]

I wouldn't use single axle trailers again to transport a normal car

here's one of the Capri in France



this is without engine ..............check out the ride height of the front of the trailer

and what it was bought for transporting

Edited by DBSV8 on Thursday 23 July 02:09

[TooMany2cvs]

Roo said:

No disrespect but,

That does look like a fishtail accident waiting to happen.

I've towed a miscellany of disreputable car trailers, single and twin axle, begged/borrowed/rented, and only once had a serious fishtail get started - when it caught itself (I'm under no illusions - I was a passenger), I looked in the mirror and there were a pair of wagons 100m back side-by-side with their hazards on.

That was a twin-axle...

[QBee]

TooMany2cvs said:

Roo said:

No disrespect but,

That does look like a fishtail accident waiting to happen.

I've towed a miscellany of disreputable car trailers, single and twin axle, begged/borrowed/rented, and only once had a serious fishtail get started - when it caught itself (I'm under no illusions - I was a passenger), I looked in the mirror and there were a pair of wagons 100m back side-by-side with their hazards on.

That was a twin-axle...

I take what everyone is saying about stability very seriously. I will be fitting the caravan stabiliser, and will take great care to balance the trailer with a little weight, but not too much, on the hitch. I am lucky in that while the car position can only vary by about 18 inches (12 foot bed, 13 foot car), in that 18 inches I have the full range of positions available weight-wise.

I am 61 and have all the classes mentioned above on my licence. I have been towing for 10 years now, usually a twin axle horse trailer (Equitrek if you are into these things) which, with my two horses on board, weighs a gnat's knackers under 2500 kg. No incidents to date.
My only fishtail to date was with a previously owned Rice trailer, again twin axle, with only one horse on board (so uneven weight distribution), coming down a steep hill at 50mph on the M20. Well, it started at 50, but the horse trailer was pushing the Ford Explorer so that we actually accelerated. Clearly the brakes on the trailer weren't up to much. I managed to get it back under control, but it was a tad scary, and for the (newly acquired) horse too I imagine. The trailer was well errrr, "encrusted" when we had a look inside 50 miles later.
I will be taking it very steadily, as befits my age, and probably won't go over 50 mph. What's the point in having a trailer/caravan if you can't bugger up everyone else's day? Actually, when towing the horses I do rigidly obey the trailer speed limits and watch the queue behind, and move over into lay-bys etc whenever I am getting a queue. I have done over 10,000 miles now towing. The car trailer seemed to tow very well and be well balanced on my short trip to the weigh bridge and back.

On the wheel and tyre front, I will be getting new wheels for the new tyres, as I have one 4.5J and one 5J wheel at present! And going for at least 750 kg rated tyres, as advised above. Getting there....and thanks again for all the comments and advice. It has been very interesting, to me at least. D-day is next Thursday, when I will be taking the rig from Newark (that well known anagram town) to Castle Combe in deepest Wiltshire, a 150 mile drive, first half nice smooth dual carriageways, second half the A429 through the Cotswolds. So I had better get on and order my wheels and tyres. If I don't like the way it tows, it will be on Ebay/PH Classifieds before you can blink.

[TooMany2cvs]

QBee said:

On the wheel and tyre front, I will be getting new wheels for the new tyres, as I have one 4.5J and one 5J wheel at present!

<splutter> Bet you're really glad you checked!

QBee said:

If I don't like the way it tows, it will be on Ebay/PH Classifieds before you can blink.

Hmm... How much...?