Pub car park barrier - what are my responsibilities
Discussion
Hi
Following a recent theft and a general desire to do it anyway, we are looking at installing a barrier across our car park.
I was wondering whether anyone knows the law or could let me know who I'd need to speak to in order to find out what I would need to do to ensure that I had no liabilities from having the barrier. I'm thinking things like signs, illumination, distance from entrance to barrier. This last one could be a problem as the barrier would be just a meter or so from the road-side car park entrance and the approach to said entrance is blind from both directions. I can't upload a photo whilst at work but will try to later.
So - can anyone give advice or knows where I can get advice?
TIA,
Phil
Following a recent theft and a general desire to do it anyway, we are looking at installing a barrier across our car park.
I was wondering whether anyone knows the law or could let me know who I'd need to speak to in order to find out what I would need to do to ensure that I had no liabilities from having the barrier. I'm thinking things like signs, illumination, distance from entrance to barrier. This last one could be a problem as the barrier would be just a meter or so from the road-side car park entrance and the approach to said entrance is blind from both directions. I can't upload a photo whilst at work but will try to later.
So - can anyone give advice or knows where I can get advice?
TIA,
Phil
If you were building a new pub car park with that arrangement it's likely you'd be required to have at least 6m between barrier and road, in order that a vehicle can wait off the highway until the barrier is raised. However, if you receive deliveries via the car park then they could request as much as 15-20m set back.
Whether you'd need planning for putting a barrier into an existing car park is the question though. If not then you might avoid the above.
Whether you'd need planning for putting a barrier into an existing car park is the question though. If not then you might avoid the above.
TooMany2cvs said:
Are you thinking of a barrier that's open during business hours, closed outside those times? Or a barrier that's opened and closed for each vehicle?
If the latter, I'd guess you'd need sufficient space for the vehicle to pull off the road - and that'd include a beer delivery wagon.
No. It would be the former. Just shut whilst the pub is shut and vice versa. Our deliveries are all done out the front of the pub. We are on a very quiet road - probably a couple of dozen cars pass by per day - so this isn't a problem. What will be is the Biffa lorry but we can work with them to sort it out.If the latter, I'd guess you'd need sufficient space for the vehicle to pull off the road - and that'd include a beer delivery wagon.
My concern is that a visitor would have pretty much zero notice of a barrier before they turned in to the car park and whether there is any onus on us to provide adequate warning. It might be that we could give a few feet or so but because of the logistics of the barrier placement, any more and it would render the barrier redundant.
Planning permission is an interesting point - I hadn't considered that. Will follow up now. They may well have all of the "liabilities" answers too.
Thanks chaps.
Landlord said:
My concern is that a visitor would have pretty much zero notice of a barrier before they turned in to the car park
No less than they'd have of somebody driving out of the car park, or walking across the entrance, surely...?If you think it's going to be an issue, then put a mirror-onna-stick up.
TooMany2cvs said:
No less than they'd have of somebody driving out of the car park, or walking across the entrance, surely...?
If you think it's going to be an issue, then put a mirror-onna-stick up.
True. Though there's bound to be some H&S rule that differentiates between a "coincidental obstruction" and a "deliberate, malicious, won't-someone-think-of-the-children obstruction".If you think it's going to be an issue, then put a mirror-onna-stick up.
My thoughts currently would be a perfectly visible sign warning of a barrier. Visible from both directions of approach. We could also put a kerb in - there isn't one currently - that would force cars to slow down before turning in due to the acute turn required. It would also stop people braking on the corner of our property because they're going too fast to see oncoming traffic (single track road) and gouging a 6" deep trough in our car park entrance... that fills with dirty rain water and then gets sprayed against our white walls. You may pick up on the fact that this bothers me somewhat.
Edited by Landlord on Thursday 23 July 12:16
YHM
Most new systems have both electronic eyes and induction loops to detect any vehicle in the way of the barrier. These usually freeze the system to prevent damage to any vehicle.
The electronic eye should detect people too walking through the barrier area.
We've just put our barriers on ebay as a new 10m cantilever gate is being fitted this week.
Most new systems have both electronic eyes and induction loops to detect any vehicle in the way of the barrier. These usually freeze the system to prevent damage to any vehicle.
The electronic eye should detect people too walking through the barrier area.
We've just put our barriers on ebay as a new 10m cantilever gate is being fitted this week.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's merely to stop cars entering our car park when we don't want them to. We don't need it to stop a 10 ton lorry travelling at 60 mph or owt. Literally we just want to stop the entrance being completely open. We live at the pub so anyone trying to get past the barrier (in whatever form) using force will wake us up.I originally considered those posts that fold flat but I was worried that they'd be even more difficult to see by an approaching car... but thinking about it now, we could stagger them such that it might not be a problem...
Thanks everyone - it's certainly helped me cogitate...
Landlord said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's merely to stop cars entering our car park when we don't want them to. We don't need it to stop a 10 ton lorry travelling at 60 mph or owt. Literally we just want to stop the entrance being completely open. We live at the pub so anyone trying to get past the barrier (in whatever form) using force will wake us up.I originally considered those posts that fold flat but I was worried that they'd be even more difficult to see by an approaching car... but thinking about it now, we could stagger them such that it might not be a problem...
Thanks everyone - it's certainly helped me cogitate...
I have seen one setup with posts and a chain across with a warning triangle hung on the chain to make them more visible.
talksthetorque said:
OP - What are your plans for the driver who has a couple too many, gets a taxi/walks home and wants to pick up the car and leave the car park at 5.30am to get to work for 6?
I know the crazy hours landlords work, and am sure you won't want to add to your duty hours.
Two things - one, I'm usually up at that time (I don't work at the pub per se, just own it, and commute to London) but also, we have spaces out the front of the pub so they can leave it there. That's assuming they have the decency to ask if they can leave their car with us over night. If they don't and don't know about the bollards... well, that'll learn 'em for not being polite! I know the crazy hours landlords work, and am sure you won't want to add to your duty hours.
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