Are you Drunk in Charge when in a Sleepercab?
Discussion
A mate of mine went out one evening to a company 'do', a few years ago, and slept in his car (he had planned to do this, he was even tucked up in his sleeping bag), but he was woken in the early hours by Plod shining his torch into the car. And he was done - fined, banned and all as he had the key in the ignition.
Even though he protested that the key had to be in the ignition otherwise the alarm would self-arm, and that he had no intention of driving, he still got a ban.
Had he taken the chance by driving home under the influence, he might have escaped a ban - or he might have killed someone
Even though he protested that the key had to be in the ignition otherwise the alarm would self-arm, and that he had no intention of driving, he still got a ban.
Had he taken the chance by driving home under the influence, he might have escaped a ban - or he might have killed someone
If Laurie Driver can prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence of D i/c the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of him driving the vehicle whilst OPL.(Statutory Defence under RTA 88).
Note it for him to prove before Magistrates.
Very difficult when in the vehicle and in possession of keys.
DVD
Note it for him to prove before Magistrates.
Very difficult when in the vehicle and in possession of keys.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
If Laurie Driver can prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence of D i/c the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of him driving the vehicle whilst OPL.(Statutory Defence under RTA 88).
Note it for him to prove before Magistrates.
Very difficult when in the vehicle and in possession of keys.
DVD
If the driver had reached his tacho limit for the day would that be good enough mitigation?
I appreciate that some people fiddle the tacho but generally speaking they dont.
Just curious have no connection to truckers or indeed drink drivers...
Plotloss said:
If the driver had reached his tacho limit for the day would that be good enough mitigation?
So drivers don't exceed their hours then?
Plotless said:
I appreciate that some people fiddle the tacho but generally speaking they dont.
No? How do you know?
How many drivers have you stopped to check their weekly and fortnightly drivers hours after calculating them to find if they have cheated?
Plotless said:
Just curious have no connection to truckers or indeed drink drivers...
Truckers will exceed their hours if they think they can get away with it. Not all by any means but many will!
Having driven their permitted hours, why should that be a bar on them deciding to drive it further without a tacho in the tacho head!
Dwight VanDriver said:
If Laurie Driver can prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence of D i/c the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of him driving the vehicle whilst OPL.(Statutory Defence under RTA 88).
Note it for him to prove before Magistrates.
Very difficult when in the vehicle and in possession of keys.
DVD
The fact he was in a sleeping bag was not enough?
It is a strange bit of law... yes he could get out of his sleeping bag, but then I could get out of my bed at home drunk, get in the car and drive off, so what's the difference? I think ppl should be encouraged to sleep it off if drunk, yet this interpretation seems to be an incentive to "run for home"?
deeen said:
If Laurie Driver can prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence of D i/c the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of him driving the vehicle whilst OPL.(Statutory Defence under RTA 88).
Note it for him to prove before Magistrates.
Very difficult when in the vehicle and in possession of keys.
DVD
There is lots of difference!
A sleeper cab is still within the confines of a motor vehicle. A house is not.
Either intent to drive is punishable by severe penalties if the person inteding on driving is caught.
The difference in the offences you are comparing is that to leave your bed, find your keys, go out of the house and unlock the car, place the key in the ignition and then drive takes a lot of preparation on your part and shows intent to drive.
Being in charge within the vehicle requires little preparation to get behind the wheel and move the vehicle.
The basic answer is that when you are a truck driver who has to use a sleeper cab to complete your delivery, then don't drink or if you do, just have a small one! Anyone who gets pissed is not in a position to make rational and sensible decisions about their conduct. That is why the offence of in charge exists because unrational and illogical decisions can lead to serious consequences, especially if they are in 38 tons and are moving.
deeen said:
The fact he was in a sleeping bag was not enough?
He couldn't get out of it in a shake then?
deeen said:
It is a strange bit of law... yes he could get out of his sleeping bag, but then I could get out of my bed at home drunk, get in the car and drive off, so what's the difference?
See explanation above.
[quote=deeen]
I think ppl should be encouraged to sleep it off if drunk, yet this interpretation seems to be an incentive to "run for home"?
They should be encouraged to sleep it off and nowhere near a motorvehicle with the keyts in their possession. It is an offence to deal with temptation!
spaximus said:
It is an interseting one that, so if I drive my motorhome and park in a layby and have a drink I possibly will get done. If I was in my caravan attaced to the car I would not? All a bit vauge isn't it?
Not really!
If you have pitched your caravan for the night, that will entail making preparations for it to be level and the supporting legs at either end wound down to stablise it. The effort involved in re-attaching the caravan to the car to drive whilst pissed is much more than just jumping from the sofa in the back into the driving seat!
If you are in a motor vehicle on a road or in a public place whilst you are pissed and have the keys with you, then you are liable to arrest under Section 5 RTA 1988. If you are arrested and charged, it is for you to convince the court that there was no likelyhood of you driving the vehicle whilst you remained unfit. That is not unreasonable!
Drink driving kills people. Any legislation to avert that happeneing is good legislation.
There is a very simple answer. Don't get pisssed if you have to spend the night in a motor vehicle!!!
Where does this end? If you are in a pub, drunk and with your car keys in pocket could you be charged if your car is in the car park? You could after all walk straight out and drive off, but then again you might not. Surely the offending behaviour should be drunk driving and not drunk sleeping or drunk in possesion of a set of car keys.
david_s said:
Where does this end? If you are in a pub, drunk and with your car keys in pocket could you be charged if your car is in the car park? You could after all walk straight out and drive off, but then again you might not. Surely the offending behaviour should be drunk driving and not drunk sleeping or drunk in possesion of a set of car keys.
It ends when the owner of the car sits in the car with the keys in his/her pocket.
Whilst he stays in the pub, he/she is technically still in charge but there is no real likleyhood of him/her driving it whilst he/she is still in the pub.
This is a preventative measure and a good one.
Why do we need to allow the drunk to get behind the controls and drive? We risk a pursuit or an accident when trying to stop them or an accident if we don't find them at all because they have already left! Catching them before they can drive will negate all of this happening.
On the plus side of this offence, the Magistrates actually have a power of discretion over disqualification. They do not have any discretion over driving whilst drunk as the disqual is mandatory!
gh0st said:
I was always told that if one must sleep in a vehicle, one must put ones keys somewhere totally inaccessable. Like hide them under the wheelarch of the car or something.
In my mate's case, he HAD to stick the keys in the ignition, as the car's alarm (fitted by the company to their specific requirements) would self-arm otherwise, and as there was an internal motion sensor in the car, it would have gone off if/when my mate moved in his sleep - I know, I was working for the same company at the time.
This was clearly a case of unreasonable prosecution.
gone said:
....Whilst he stays in the pub, he/she is technically still in charge but there is no real likleyhood of him/her driving it whilst he/she is still in the pub
Neither is there a real likelyhood of a person driving if he/she is in a sleeping bag!
>> Edited by wolosp on Monday 7th February 19:22
I was not advocating drink driving far from it I just think that the descretion has been taken from a copper. If I found someone asleep in a pupose built vehicle for sleeping in, motorhome or caravan, then the chances are they will be okay and unless there are attempts to drive away they should be left alone. The guy who was asleep in a sleeping bag must feel hard done by, he took reasonable steps not to drive and was in the back with the keys stopping the alarm from going off.Yet he is banned just the same as someone who deliberatly drives whilst under the influence. Had the cop who woke him up had any sense he would have got him out of the car and used descretion to determine intent, instead we have another police hating individual to add to the ranks.This is the result of policing by numbers where everyone is looking over thir shoulder.
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