RX7 Veilside Fortune Edition & Plod
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm getting this story about 4th hand so I don't really know all the details but story follows roughly like this;
Somebody I don't know, but is a work colleague of a friend of a friend, has a bit of wedge and has a few rare cars in his collection. He is a big Jap car fan and has amongst others, an NSX, a R34 GT-R Skyline and a Veilside Fortune RX7.
The quibble is this, he was apparently stopped by police (don't know why) and they were doing the 'is this car insured checks etc' and they asked if his mods were all declared. Now apparently it is as it left the factory (as he keeps all his cars original and is very particular) and he said no, but couldn't convince the officer it wasn't modded and was a special edition. (Along the lines of the officer saying "what do you take me for, look at it, special edition my arse" and he is being done for not having valid insurance.
That's all I know so far, but is it just a simple case of the insurer getting a call from the police and them saying, it's all fine, end of matter. Or does he have to go about trying to prove it's unmodified? It's a tricky one, as technically it's unmodified from point of sale, but modified from a base RX7.
I'm getting this story about 4th hand so I don't really know all the details but story follows roughly like this;
Somebody I don't know, but is a work colleague of a friend of a friend, has a bit of wedge and has a few rare cars in his collection. He is a big Jap car fan and has amongst others, an NSX, a R34 GT-R Skyline and a Veilside Fortune RX7.
The quibble is this, he was apparently stopped by police (don't know why) and they were doing the 'is this car insured checks etc' and they asked if his mods were all declared. Now apparently it is as it left the factory (as he keeps all his cars original and is very particular) and he said no, but couldn't convince the officer it wasn't modded and was a special edition. (Along the lines of the officer saying "what do you take me for, look at it, special edition my arse" and he is being done for not having valid insurance.
That's all I know so far, but is it just a simple case of the insurer getting a call from the police and them saying, it's all fine, end of matter. Or does he have to go about trying to prove it's unmodified? It's a tricky one, as technically it's unmodified from point of sale, but modified from a base RX7.
The Fortune is an aftermarket kit. Vileside don't produce them from the factory as a complete car from raw components, they just churn out horrible looking fibreglass.
Your friend does not have a factory Veilside Fortune RX7, they have a modified RX7 with a kit on it. I'd also be very surprised if it were completely factory mechanicals underneath all that FRP.
It may have been fitted and painted by Vileside at their factory, but it's not a 'Factory' car, it's just a modified car that was done by a 'tuning' shop, IYSWIM.
Your friend does not have a factory Veilside Fortune RX7, they have a modified RX7 with a kit on it. I'd also be very surprised if it were completely factory mechanicals underneath all that FRP.
It may have been fitted and painted by Vileside at their factory, but it's not a 'Factory' car, it's just a modified car that was done by a 'tuning' shop, IYSWIM.
Yep, when people say "factory fitted", they mean the original Mazda factory.
Unless it was bought from the factory by Veilside, modified, and then sold again as new with a different name on the logbooks, it is still just the same as any car with a body kit fitted whenever.
Alpina were similar years ago, although now I believe they operate a little differently. They would buy a car from BMW, do all they wanted, score out the old VIN and give it a new one, and it'd be classed as a different car.
Think of it this way, is the insurance company aware it has a load of fibreglass, rare, expensive and hard to get hold of parts on it?
If someone went into the back of it, would the insurance company be surprised if the body shop rang them to say it's going to cost thousands and would take 6 weeks for a rear bumper to turn up from Japan, as it's not something you can get over the parts counter at Mazda.
Unless it was bought from the factory by Veilside, modified, and then sold again as new with a different name on the logbooks, it is still just the same as any car with a body kit fitted whenever.
Alpina were similar years ago, although now I believe they operate a little differently. They would buy a car from BMW, do all they wanted, score out the old VIN and give it a new one, and it'd be classed as a different car.
Think of it this way, is the insurance company aware it has a load of fibreglass, rare, expensive and hard to get hold of parts on it?
If someone went into the back of it, would the insurance company be surprised if the body shop rang them to say it's going to cost thousands and would take 6 weeks for a rear bumper to turn up from Japan, as it's not something you can get over the parts counter at Mazda.
Lol, 'Vileside'.
Yeah personally I think the Fortune RX7 looks awful and the money it commands is ludicrous. So I guess he's in a spot of bother then if it's insured as a bog standard RX-7. Like I said I don't know the ins & outs and he's not my friend. I assumed that RX7 was one of those special edition whereby the car manufacturer gives in to Veilside, or Prodrive etc and they make 100 of them.
So if it's just a crappy bodykit, how come they go for £25k odd instead or the usual RX7 £4-12 odd? Seems a bit steep for just an aftermarket bodykit?
Yeah personally I think the Fortune RX7 looks awful and the money it commands is ludicrous. So I guess he's in a spot of bother then if it's insured as a bog standard RX-7. Like I said I don't know the ins & outs and he's not my friend. I assumed that RX7 was one of those special edition whereby the car manufacturer gives in to Veilside, or Prodrive etc and they make 100 of them.
So if it's just a crappy bodykit, how come they go for £25k odd instead or the usual RX7 £4-12 odd? Seems a bit steep for just an aftermarket bodykit?
Speed Badger said:
So if it's just a crappy bodykit, how come they go for £25k odd instead or the usual RX7 £4-12 odd? Seems a bit steep for just an aftermarket bodykit?
'twas in a film once. That's about it. Those that like RX-7s hate them. They are bought by people that think they look good, I can only assume. I don't get it either.
Roo said:
jm doc said:
Surely he still has 3rd party cover??
From where if his policy is invalid due to non-declaration of mods?That's the thing about 3rd party insurance, that always stands, but if the insurance company had to pay a claim, they could then sue for the money back.
Right now though, the insurance company could do one of two things, either charge him the extra to continue the cover, or remove it completely.
The 3rd party insurance is one of those things that still stands if someone was telling porkies when getting the insurance, the ins co will pay it, but they then have the chance to sue for their money back.
This is to help 3rd parties out so they aren't left in the lurch by someone else's actions.
There's some details here-
http://www.budgetinsurance.com/car-insurance/the-m...
the uninsured drivers agreement
No car insurance – the MIB will settle insurance claims for third party injury and damage to property.
No valid car insurance – if a driver causes third party injury and damage to property while, for example, using their car for business on a private use only policy, the MIB will insist that the driver’s insurance company pays out to the third party. It will then be up to the insurer to recover its costs from their own customer.
That's for a car where there IS an insurance policy, but it is invalid due to the details. So, despite the policy being invalidated by non declaration of mods, the insurance company would foot the bill for a claim.
It doesn't mean they had proper insurance and can get off a no insurance charge, it just means that there's a system to pick up the pieces quickly and sort the 3rd party out, and then the driver gets sued by the insurance company.
http://www.budgetinsurance.com/car-insurance/the-m...
the uninsured drivers agreement
No car insurance – the MIB will settle insurance claims for third party injury and damage to property.
No valid car insurance – if a driver causes third party injury and damage to property while, for example, using their car for business on a private use only policy, the MIB will insist that the driver’s insurance company pays out to the third party. It will then be up to the insurer to recover its costs from their own customer.
That's for a car where there IS an insurance policy, but it is invalid due to the details. So, despite the policy being invalidated by non declaration of mods, the insurance company would foot the bill for a claim.
It doesn't mean they had proper insurance and can get off a no insurance charge, it just means that there's a system to pick up the pieces quickly and sort the 3rd party out, and then the driver gets sued by the insurance company.
TheEnd said:
There's some details here-
http://www.budgetinsurance.com/car-insurance/the-m...
the uninsured drivers agreement
No car insurance – the MIB will settle insurance claims for third party injury and damage to property.
No valid car insurance – if a driver causes third party injury and damage to property while, for example, using their car for business on a private use only policy, the MIB will insist that the driver’s insurance company pays out to the third party. It will then be up to the insurer to recover its costs from their own customer.
That's for a car where there IS an insurance policy, but it is invalid due to the details. So, despite the policy being invalidated by non declaration of mods, the insurance company would foot the bill for a claim.
It doesn't mean they had proper insurance and can get off a no insurance charge, it just means that there's a system to pick up the pieces quickly and sort the 3rd party out, and then the driver gets sued by the insurance company.
3rd party cover is the minimum requirement under the law, so I am not sure what he would be charged with, as any 3rd party is covered. Maybe fraudulently obtaining insurance, but then you would probably have to prove he did it deliberately. http://www.budgetinsurance.com/car-insurance/the-m...
the uninsured drivers agreement
No car insurance – the MIB will settle insurance claims for third party injury and damage to property.
No valid car insurance – if a driver causes third party injury and damage to property while, for example, using their car for business on a private use only policy, the MIB will insist that the driver’s insurance company pays out to the third party. It will then be up to the insurer to recover its costs from their own customer.
That's for a car where there IS an insurance policy, but it is invalid due to the details. So, despite the policy being invalidated by non declaration of mods, the insurance company would foot the bill for a claim.
It doesn't mean they had proper insurance and can get off a no insurance charge, it just means that there's a system to pick up the pieces quickly and sort the 3rd party out, and then the driver gets sued by the insurance company.
I agree that the insurance company could probably sue him to recover their costs. I am not a lawyer however...
I would think the guy who has a few classic Jap cars will know all about them and have the correct insurance.
What probably happened was he was stopped by the police as they were interested in his car as they were Jap car fans but by the time you got the story 4th hand it changed to him not having the correct insurance.
What probably happened was he was stopped by the police as they were interested in his car as they were Jap car fans but by the time you got the story 4th hand it changed to him not having the correct insurance.
TheEnd said:
Yep, when people say "factory fitted", they mean the original Mazda factory.
Unless it was bought from the factory by Veilside, modified, and then sold again as new with a different name on the logbooks, it is still just the same as any car with a body kit fitted whenever.
Alpina were similar years ago, although now I believe they operate a little differently. They would buy a car from BMW, do all they wanted, score out the old VIN and give it a new one, and it'd be classed as a different car.
Think of it this way, is the insurance company aware it has a load of fibreglass, rare, expensive and hard to get hold of parts on it?
If someone went into the back of it, would the insurance company be surprised if the body shop rang them to say it's going to cost thousands and would take 6 weeks for a rear bumper to turn up from Japan, as it's not something you can get over the parts counter at Mazda.
+1 Unless it was bought from the factory by Veilside, modified, and then sold again as new with a different name on the logbooks, it is still just the same as any car with a body kit fitted whenever.
Alpina were similar years ago, although now I believe they operate a little differently. They would buy a car from BMW, do all they wanted, score out the old VIN and give it a new one, and it'd be classed as a different car.
Think of it this way, is the insurance company aware it has a load of fibreglass, rare, expensive and hard to get hold of parts on it?
If someone went into the back of it, would the insurance company be surprised if the body shop rang them to say it's going to cost thousands and would take 6 weeks for a rear bumper to turn up from Japan, as it's not something you can get over the parts counter at Mazda.
Alpina models always have Alpina on the Log Book as they are classed as a car maker the same as Brabus
jm doc said:
3rd party cover is the minimum requirement under the law, so I am not sure what he would be charged with, as any 3rd party is covered. Maybe fraudulently obtaining insurance, but then you would probably have to prove he did it deliberately.
I agree that the insurance company could probably sue him to recover their costs. I am not a lawyer however...
The example given eg using the vehicle for a use not covered by the policy means the Insurer is not "contractually liable" as the use is not covered under the contract of insurance. This example also avoids section 151 liability (Statutory liability) eg the wording of the RTA does not make the Insurer liable. So the driver does not hold Insurance in the eyes of the law. I agree that the insurance company could probably sue him to recover their costs. I am not a lawyer however...
However to be an authorised Insurer in the UK, Insurers have to abide by the regulations of the MIB which would make the Insurer (As the Issuer of a current Certificate) an "Article 75 Insurer" which basically means the driver is uninsured an the liability for damages is the MIB's but the rules of belonging to the MIB mean the Insurer itself pays the claim out on behalf of the MIB and can seek reimbersment from their policyholder.
Due to the wording of the RTA section 151 there's a difference in how using a vehicle for a use that's not covered is treated as opposed to someone not declaring a modification which would normally mean the Insurer is a "Section 151 Insurer"
It's a subtle difference but does make a difference
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