Second Hand Car Problem (Dealer) Help Please
Discussion
Hi All,
Posting on behalf of my dad, he purchased a car from a company in Bolton in May (We are in Stafford). He part exed my late mothers newish citroen C3, and ended up paying the rest in cash (debit card) which was around £3k. At the time he also purchased a warranty with the car (through centurion, which I think covered up to £1,000 of repairs or something like that)
The car he bought was a 2011 Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 1.8 TSI.
The car was fine and the drive back from Bolton uneventful but after a few weeks, the oil light came on, so my dad got some oil and topped it up and after another week or so, it came on again.
After doing some research online, my dad came to the conclusion this car suffered with the piston ring issue that a lot of VAG cars suffer with on the TSI engines.
We rang the garage, who agreed to have the car back to fix it, bit of a pain with it being a good 90 mins drive away, but anyway, we took the car back to them and explained what we thought the problem was (piston rings) but they said they would get it in their workshop to have a look.
A week and a bit later, they phoned to tell us it was fixed. We drove back up there to collect it. They told us they had fixed the problem and had replaced the oil pump, all sorted.
My dad drove it home and covered a few hundred miles, and again the oil light came on. again, topped it up, thinking they might not have filled it fully at the garage, but again after a few hundred miles, it came on again.
So again we contacted the garage and they again agreed to have it back and have another look. We again told them about the piston ring issue and to investigate whether it was that. Again a week later, they phoned us and told us it was the piston rings that were buggered, and it would be about £2.5k to fix but as the warranty only covered up to £1,000, they would sort out the rest and we wouldn't have to pay anything (so far so good, can't really grumble about their after sales service, but it is a big garage).
So we drop the car off with them again and they tell us its going to a specialist in London for an engine rebuild and they would phone and let us know when its done.
Fast forward about two months(!) and we got told the car was ready, so today, we went off up to Bolton to collect it, happy that it had a £2.5k engine rebuild (receipts to prove). We were waiting in the showroom for the car (the garage had agreed to fit my dads private plates on it, so we took those up with us, and they agreed to fit the plates today while we waited), but we waited an hour and then a salesman came in to us in the garage and said there was a problem with the car and we wouldn't be able to take it as the engine light had come on!
So totally peed off, we headed back home, and here we are now. The salesman said he despairs, he doesn't know what to do next. In fairness, they have attempted to fix the car by sending it away to a specialist to have the engine sorted, but now they have it back, it still appears to be broken.
What can we do now? My dad is totally hacked off with it and just wants his money back. The garage say they have spent the best part of £3k trying to fix it up, and its still throwing problems at them. My dad has said he doesn't want the car back, as it appears its going to be a constant source of problems.
The garage has said they will phone on Monday as they need to find out whats gone wrong with it now but they don't have the right diagnostics at their garage, so will have to send it off to another garage to get the codes read.
The garage says if it comes to it, they can get it fixed and sell it on for my dad, but of course he probably isn't going to get anywhere near what he gave for it (a 15 month old Citroen C3 Picasso + £3,000 cash).
Do we have to give the garage chance to fix the car again? they have said it might have to go off to London again to be fixed but my dad has said he doesn't want the car back.
So far my dad has had the car since May and its been away for repair for all but 2 or 3 weeks of that time. Insurance and tax are being paid on a car which isn't really being used. The car also had a removable tow bar fitted which cost my dad £300, which has gone missing while the car has been in London.
All told, its been an absolute disaster and we want to know where to go from here.
Many Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice.
Thank you
Posting on behalf of my dad, he purchased a car from a company in Bolton in May (We are in Stafford). He part exed my late mothers newish citroen C3, and ended up paying the rest in cash (debit card) which was around £3k. At the time he also purchased a warranty with the car (through centurion, which I think covered up to £1,000 of repairs or something like that)
The car he bought was a 2011 Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 1.8 TSI.
The car was fine and the drive back from Bolton uneventful but after a few weeks, the oil light came on, so my dad got some oil and topped it up and after another week or so, it came on again.
After doing some research online, my dad came to the conclusion this car suffered with the piston ring issue that a lot of VAG cars suffer with on the TSI engines.
We rang the garage, who agreed to have the car back to fix it, bit of a pain with it being a good 90 mins drive away, but anyway, we took the car back to them and explained what we thought the problem was (piston rings) but they said they would get it in their workshop to have a look.
A week and a bit later, they phoned to tell us it was fixed. We drove back up there to collect it. They told us they had fixed the problem and had replaced the oil pump, all sorted.
My dad drove it home and covered a few hundred miles, and again the oil light came on. again, topped it up, thinking they might not have filled it fully at the garage, but again after a few hundred miles, it came on again.
So again we contacted the garage and they again agreed to have it back and have another look. We again told them about the piston ring issue and to investigate whether it was that. Again a week later, they phoned us and told us it was the piston rings that were buggered, and it would be about £2.5k to fix but as the warranty only covered up to £1,000, they would sort out the rest and we wouldn't have to pay anything (so far so good, can't really grumble about their after sales service, but it is a big garage).
So we drop the car off with them again and they tell us its going to a specialist in London for an engine rebuild and they would phone and let us know when its done.
Fast forward about two months(!) and we got told the car was ready, so today, we went off up to Bolton to collect it, happy that it had a £2.5k engine rebuild (receipts to prove). We were waiting in the showroom for the car (the garage had agreed to fit my dads private plates on it, so we took those up with us, and they agreed to fit the plates today while we waited), but we waited an hour and then a salesman came in to us in the garage and said there was a problem with the car and we wouldn't be able to take it as the engine light had come on!
So totally peed off, we headed back home, and here we are now. The salesman said he despairs, he doesn't know what to do next. In fairness, they have attempted to fix the car by sending it away to a specialist to have the engine sorted, but now they have it back, it still appears to be broken.
What can we do now? My dad is totally hacked off with it and just wants his money back. The garage say they have spent the best part of £3k trying to fix it up, and its still throwing problems at them. My dad has said he doesn't want the car back, as it appears its going to be a constant source of problems.
The garage has said they will phone on Monday as they need to find out whats gone wrong with it now but they don't have the right diagnostics at their garage, so will have to send it off to another garage to get the codes read.
The garage says if it comes to it, they can get it fixed and sell it on for my dad, but of course he probably isn't going to get anywhere near what he gave for it (a 15 month old Citroen C3 Picasso + £3,000 cash).
Do we have to give the garage chance to fix the car again? they have said it might have to go off to London again to be fixed but my dad has said he doesn't want the car back.
So far my dad has had the car since May and its been away for repair for all but 2 or 3 weeks of that time. Insurance and tax are being paid on a car which isn't really being used. The car also had a removable tow bar fitted which cost my dad £300, which has gone missing while the car has been in London.
All told, its been an absolute disaster and we want to know where to go from here.
Many Thanks to anyone who can offer any advice.
Thank you
Sounds like the garage have been making pretty sensible efforts to get the car sorted for you. An EMS light coming on now probably isn't anything to do with the rings failure but may be something to do with the whole engine being taken out and refitted etc in which case it may be a simple fix and nothing to worry about.
Either way, while the garage are making reasonable attempts to sort it out for you I doubt you have any reason for rejecting the car (IANAL etc).
Either way, while the garage are making reasonable attempts to sort it out for you I doubt you have any reason for rejecting the car (IANAL etc).
Sale of Goods Act 1979
The car was not 'rejected' so that option is gone
The next option is repair/repalce - this has been done. There was no limits on how many repairs but as it is now 'significant inconvenience' to the consumer you move onto the final stage
Partial refund/full refund. Therefore best option would be to obtain a partial refudn which is the cost of the car minus any use had.
Theroretically your dad could also claim for any forseeable lossses caused by the failure of the car to meet the standard required by the SOGA - this coudl exceed the amount he initally paid.
If it gets difficult as a minimum I would quote SOGA for a partial refund (which may end up being full value if he has had no use) and if they get arsey threaten additional damages (if any occured).
The car was not 'rejected' so that option is gone
The next option is repair/repalce - this has been done. There was no limits on how many repairs but as it is now 'significant inconvenience' to the consumer you move onto the final stage
Partial refund/full refund. Therefore best option would be to obtain a partial refudn which is the cost of the car minus any use had.
Theroretically your dad could also claim for any forseeable lossses caused by the failure of the car to meet the standard required by the SOGA - this coudl exceed the amount he initally paid.
If it gets difficult as a minimum I would quote SOGA for a partial refund (which may end up being full value if he has had no use) and if they get arsey threaten additional damages (if any occured).
Whether the garage are playing nice guy is relevant but its also not always that relevant legally - there is only so much you should have to put up with - you did pay for a working car at the end of the day.
I suppose you are lucky in that they are accepting they have to fix the fault.
I suppose you are lucky in that they are accepting they have to fix the fault.
IANAL
We went through similar with a car a few years ago. Almost immediately it showed a fault and was in and out of the garage for 8 weeks, I think we worked out that of the 2 months we'd owned it they had it for 6 weeks. We were lucky, we didn't have a trade in vehicle and though the garage wasn't that far (ironically Stafford) it was still a pain in the arris running back and forth. We also paid £100 deposit via credit card to offer a little more protection.
In the end we gave them a letter telling them that should we not get a fully fixed, fault free vehicle within 2 weeks we would reject. The night before this threat expired they called us, apologised and gave us a full refund.
Did your Dad pay any portion on Credit Card? I believe if he did it makes them equally liable.
We went through similar with a car a few years ago. Almost immediately it showed a fault and was in and out of the garage for 8 weeks, I think we worked out that of the 2 months we'd owned it they had it for 6 weeks. We were lucky, we didn't have a trade in vehicle and though the garage wasn't that far (ironically Stafford) it was still a pain in the arris running back and forth. We also paid £100 deposit via credit card to offer a little more protection.
In the end we gave them a letter telling them that should we not get a fully fixed, fault free vehicle within 2 weeks we would reject. The night before this threat expired they called us, apologised and gave us a full refund.
Did your Dad pay any portion on Credit Card? I believe if he did it makes them equally liable.
Negotiate a refund or an equivalent replacement.
List how long you've owned the car and how long you have been without it. Then consider if not having access to the car has cost your Dad money: you're entitled to be compensated for the cost the faulty car has made him incur. Present the dealer with this info. in writing, the CAB may help you draft a letter.
List how long you've owned the car and how long you have been without it. Then consider if not having access to the car has cost your Dad money: you're entitled to be compensated for the cost the faulty car has made him incur. Present the dealer with this info. in writing, the CAB may help you draft a letter.
I think that London garage is the one featured on watchdog a year or two ago. Quite a few people have had issues that place....
They claim to be able to recondition pretty much every engine regardless of make or model. They advertise heavily on the Internet. A chap with a VW camper had similar issues as you.
That is probable why it was sent there.
They claim to be able to recondition pretty much every engine regardless of make or model. They advertise heavily on the Internet. A chap with a VW camper had similar issues as you.
That is probable why it was sent there.
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