RE: Stop police chiefs says Safe Speed
Thursday 10th February 2005
According to The Times newspaper on Wednesday, The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) wants to have the rules for speed camera placement relaxed. Safe Speed says ACPO are fumbling around in the dark and must be stopped. The proposed changes amount to nothing less than an admission of failure.
Stop police chiefs says Safe Speed
Top cops lose plot says scamera campaign
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Image courtesy www.speedcam.co.uk |
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign said, "It is unbelievable. They have had ten years to get road deaths down with their infernal speed cameras. It hasn't worked; over two million fines per year; traffic speeds are largely unchanged and road deaths are rising. Now they want to fiddle around with the placement rules and install more speed cameras. It's blind faith and bad science. Speed cameras don't make the roads safer -- quite the opposite -- and the last thing we need is more."
"The problem with the ACPO position," said Smith, "is that they are not working with trustworthy data. If we can't trust them to use proper data we can't trust them with roads policing decisions."
"Road deaths would be down around the 2,000 mark now if pre-camera trends had been allowed to continue. The only explanation I can find for the loss of trend -- and believe me I've looked -- is bad road safety policy."
"The speed camera programme has been a very sorry story of false assumptions, poor data, terrible management and seriously damaged public confidence. The loss of confidence in the Police and in official road safety messages is critical. The only way to restore confidence is to scrap the cameras and, while we're at it, let's scrap those responsible as well."
Discussion
I know that it hasn't got a chance in hell of succeeding, But what if some party/body brought a private prosecution against the Police Chiefs for corparate manslaughter and abuse of powers, like in the case of the Hatfield rail crash, adding false use or data, and misrepresentation.
The fact that it would never get to court is not really the point, the press would pick up on the attempt and the strength of feeling behind it, deliver the summons to 10 downing st, that would get the camera's clicking
The fact that it would never get to court is not really the point, the press would pick up on the attempt and the strength of feeling behind it, deliver the summons to 10 downing st, that would get the camera's clicking
Adding more and more speed control in the face of obvious failure smacks of the mentality used by those in charge of battlefield tactics during the first world war.
Mistakes made, methods not working? Troops being lost by the thousands...just send more in!
Speed control not working and the situation getting worse? Just add more cameras!
Mistakes made, methods not working? Troops being lost by the thousands...just send more in!
Speed control not working and the situation getting worse? Just add more cameras!
I honestly can't see the situation changing, though, can you?
The government are aiming for a 40% reduction in road deaths by 2010, which they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of achieving.
The very best we'll ever get is "Oh, well we were wrong - cameras don't cut deaths. But we're not taking them down because you shouldn't be speeding anyway."
The government are aiming for a 40% reduction in road deaths by 2010, which they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of achieving.
The very best we'll ever get is "Oh, well we were wrong - cameras don't cut deaths. But we're not taking them down because you shouldn't be speeding anyway."
Ist greatest pity that I had no video camera on M60 last night. I was picking my Mama und Papa up from MIA.
Have no real problem mit tempo scams in roadworks und on this stretch - 40 mph ist safest speed which you would follow by natural choice anyway.
But ... too many ist not overly safe - even in m/way roadworks.
M60 currently has stretch at J5-J8 at 40 mph roadworks und this ist enforced on each direction by 4 scams - close together. The guy in front nearly swerved into the contra flow at one of these - und I am sure this was because he had glanced at dash und perhaps he was looking in mirror for duration of the markings. His car control was ropey at two of the scams anyway - und he drove at 35 mph throught the length of roadworks.
In meantime I am two seconds or so behind und have HGV 0.5 seconds from my rear und no way of getting rid until we reach the NSL sign.
This twit was blasting his horn as well - und was obvious we were in road words und 35 mph moving traffic ahead. This was about 8 pm last night und road was clear.
But ist M60 safer in the roadworks? They allegedly have lot of shunts within these roadworks....Signage ist not always correct -as they move the widening works along the carriageway - und the scams commence yards into the new limit und one right at the end of the roadworks. The two in the middle are about right.
As for more of the verdammten things und relaxing of siting rules ... they are not making enough cash.
Ist training which ist required - for all! Bad driving und poor road sense on part of pedestrian/cyclists ist root cause - und a speed cam on every corner ist not going to prevent such accidents.
Have no real problem mit tempo scams in roadworks und on this stretch - 40 mph ist safest speed which you would follow by natural choice anyway.
But ... too many ist not overly safe - even in m/way roadworks.
M60 currently has stretch at J5-J8 at 40 mph roadworks und this ist enforced on each direction by 4 scams - close together. The guy in front nearly swerved into the contra flow at one of these - und I am sure this was because he had glanced at dash und perhaps he was looking in mirror for duration of the markings. His car control was ropey at two of the scams anyway - und he drove at 35 mph throught the length of roadworks.
In meantime I am two seconds or so behind und have HGV 0.5 seconds from my rear und no way of getting rid until we reach the NSL sign.
This twit was blasting his horn as well - und was obvious we were in road words und 35 mph moving traffic ahead. This was about 8 pm last night und road was clear. But ist M60 safer in the roadworks? They allegedly have lot of shunts within these roadworks....Signage ist not always correct -as they move the widening works along the carriageway - und the scams commence yards into the new limit und one right at the end of the roadworks. The two in the middle are about right.
As for more of the verdammten things und relaxing of siting rules ... they are not making enough cash.
Ist training which ist required - for all! Bad driving und poor road sense on part of pedestrian/cyclists ist root cause - und a speed cam on every corner ist not going to prevent such accidents.
Did anyone else actually read the article in the Times? I skim read it and it gave an example of a road that had several KSI accidents in less than two years. However it wasn't eligible for a speed camera because less than 20% of drivers were speeding.
They bleated on about relaxing the rules but neglected to mention whether any of the accidents caused on this particular strech of road were actually caused by speeding. It could simple be bad road design, drunk, drugged or tired drivers, mechanical failure...
If I had the energy, I'd write in to the Times.
Ian A.
They bleated on about relaxing the rules but neglected to mention whether any of the accidents caused on this particular strech of road were actually caused by speeding. It could simple be bad road design, drunk, drugged or tired drivers, mechanical failure...
If I had the energy, I'd write in to the Times.
Ian A.
thegamekeeper said:The government's plan for getting around these types of issues is employing/retasking many plod to use laser speed guns, while hiding.
I think Rods idea is excellent but as he says unlikely. What amazes me is that no one has taken out litigation alleging that that a Gatso has induced an epileptic fit in a passenger of a car travelling towards the camera as it flashed at a "speeder"
This'll get far worse before it gets any better.
Anyone know of a way to create a (reverse) Doppler shift system in the infra-red spectrum?
I'm no fan of scameras but I must say that, coming from a place where police hiding behind bushes with laser guns is the norm, at least you know what you're dealing with here. UK drivers think _they're_ getting scammed?
Firstly, here you get a sign warning you that there may be scameras in the area, then if you do see one, it's because they're almost always in clear view, and painted a brilliant yellow. When I first saw them I couldn't believe it.
I agree though that the Gatsos aren't the solution for ultimately safer roads, because speed isn't always the problem. There's no substitute for proper driver training, and reinforcing of good driving habbits. Also, there's generally no sense of driver responsibility - either for the safety of our fellow motorists, pedestrians, or even the well-being of passengers, who are in our care.
I really love a good thrash as much as the next guy, but I can't help but thinking it's the reckless tw*ts who have no regard for anyone else who are letting the rest of us down and giving efficient car travel a bad rap.
>> Edited by ubergreg on Thursday 10th February 14:54
Firstly, here you get a sign warning you that there may be scameras in the area, then if you do see one, it's because they're almost always in clear view, and painted a brilliant yellow. When I first saw them I couldn't believe it.
I agree though that the Gatsos aren't the solution for ultimately safer roads, because speed isn't always the problem. There's no substitute for proper driver training, and reinforcing of good driving habbits. Also, there's generally no sense of driver responsibility - either for the safety of our fellow motorists, pedestrians, or even the well-being of passengers, who are in our care.
I really love a good thrash as much as the next guy, but I can't help but thinking it's the reckless tw*ts who have no regard for anyone else who are letting the rest of us down and giving efficient car travel a bad rap.
>> Edited by ubergreg on Thursday 10th February 14:54
sancho said:
We used to have these cameras here in Canada back in the early to mid 90's. They didn't last very long and were not very effective. Now they are a thing of the past here as the people learned they were just a big waste of money.
Talking to one of your fellow Canadians recently....he says they're considering reintroduction, and openly admitting it's a money raising plan......
mrmaggit said:
Paul said:
scrap the cameras and, while we're at it, let's scrap those responsible as well....
I have this mental picture of Brunstrom cast adrift in a Viking longboat.......mid-Atlantic.
I wouldn't waste the boat, myself.
Oh I dunno, didn't the vikings used to set fire to them?
IPAddis said:
Did anyone else actually read the article in the Times? I skim read it and it gave an example of a road that had several KSI accidents in less than two years. However it wasn't eligible for a speed camera because less than 20% of drivers were speeding.
They bleated on about relaxing the rules but neglected to mention whether any of the accidents caused on this particular strech of road were actually caused by speeding. It could simple be bad road design, drunk, drugged or tired drivers, mechanical failure...
If I had the energy, I'd write in to the Times.
Ian A.
Accidents not conected with speed? Surely not!
I feel that same as you about feeling that you lack the energy to write in. It's never-ending, this seeming media reluctance to state the obvious - it's really is worth writing in though, because you can be sure the minority in favour of speed control will write in.
'king deadly said:
The government are aiming for a 40% reduction in road deaths by 2010, which they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of achieving.
They'll be sure to make it happen one way or the other
. Maybe they will re-classify deaths, and those that are only a little bit dead won't count?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff