ABD...if you're not a member....
Discussion
Why not?
While you might not always agree with the way in which they present themselves (as has been said on here before), have a look around.....our friends are few and far between.
Seem to be one of the few organisations that speak for the motorist. We stand a much better chance of being heard through a larger collective.
While you might not always agree with the way in which they present themselves (as has been said on here before), have a look around.....our friends are few and far between.
Seem to be one of the few organisations that speak for the motorist. We stand a much better chance of being heard through a larger collective.
neil.b said:
Why not?
While you might not always agree with the way in which they present themselves (as has been said on here before), have a look around.....our friends are few and far between.
Seem to be one of the few organisations that speak for the motorist. We stand a much better chance of being heard through a larger collective.
Our friends are all over the place ; it is more about media level.
The Pols. Scamera yobbos say that 137% of people love Speed cameras and there should be twenty times as many.
Offer the public a free vote on keeping scameras or not at the next election then !
I think you'll find there are some stark staring bonkers people on "the other side" too. Those who would have speed cameras every 100 yards, those who would have all cars limited to 70mph, most lentilists etc etc
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
regmolehusband said:
I think you'll find there are some stark staring bonkers people on "the other side" too. Those who would have speed cameras every 100 yards, those who would have all cars limited to 70mph, most lentilists etc etc
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
You are entitled to do as you like in the same way as I am. I've been there and got the T shirt with the ABD. There are a few people who know what they are doing (MMC especially) but there are also a lot who have no idea.
Sorry, I have limited free time to do "stuff" so any time I spend doing "stuff" has to be productive and that means it requires an environment for clear, concise decision making.
ca092003 said:
neil.b said:
Why not?
Because some of their members are stark, staring bonkers.
I'm afraid I have to agree.
Oh dear, I was a founder member of the ABD and I left because they were not radical enough in their thinking. I cant imagine which members are stark staring bonkers. All I have ever heard from the ABD is a few people wimper quietly about not liking some bad laws and ideas the government has come up with. Poor old MMC is a very even tempered chap so you surely cant mean him.
regmolehusband said:
I think you'll find there are some stark staring bonkers people on "the other side" too. Those who would have speed cameras every 100 yards, those who would have all cars limited to 70mph, most lentilists etc etc
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
That's what I meant - alignment.
What's the old saying - if you're not part of the solution....
In a way, i suppose its a bit like being a football supporter. There may well be some players who you think are a waste of space, and the manager who talks bollocks from time to time. But you support them because...well because its your team....
It may well be a media problem but in terms of public perception, if the ABD has 1000 members, its just a bunch of car nutters who want to drive at a million miles an hour. If they have 500,000 members, people are likely to take them more seriously.
ca092003 said:
I think you'll find there are some stark staring bonkers people on "the other side" too. Those who would have speed cameras every 100 yards, those who would have all cars limited to 70mph, most lentilists etc etc
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
You are entitled to do as you like in the same way as I am. I've been there and got the T shirt with the ABD. There are a few people who know what they are doing (MMC especially) but there are also a lot who have no idea.
Sorry, I have limited free time to do "stuff" so any time I spend doing "stuff" has to be productive and that means it requires an environment for clear, concise decision making.
Perhaps the ABD needs someone like you then?
That's not sarcasm by the way, I'm serious.
Can only make changes from within and all that...
neil.b said:
regmolehusband said:
I think you'll find there are some stark staring bonkers people on "the other side" too. Those who would have speed cameras every 100 yards, those who would have all cars limited to 70mph, most lentilists etc etc
Many will be members of Greenpeace, Transport 2000 etc.
Sit on the fence if you like but I know which side I'd prefer to align myself with!
"Reg" ABD and Safespeed member.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Friday 11th February 14:51
You are entitled to do as you like in the same way as I am. I've been there and got the T shirt with the ABD. There are a few people who know what they are doing (MMC especially) but there are also a lot who have no idea.
Sorry, I have limited free time to do "stuff" so any time I spend doing "stuff" has to be productive and that means it requires an environment for clear, concise decision making.
Perhaps the ABD needs someone like you then?
That's not sarcasm by the way, I'm serious.
Can only make changes from within and all that...
As I've said, been there, done it, got sick of being ineffective and left.
Strange really despite leaving the organisation after 1 year I have frequently looked back at the website for both information and to make the odd contribution to things like Idris Francis fund etc. I have not looked at the site for ages though until last night. I was talking with Lois and she wanted some information about congestion and I sent her the link to ABD website, together with a few others. It was interesting that her initial reaction was "what the hell is all that about"? (Lois is a sharp girl too). The ABD site was criticised some time ago as being far too fussy and when I look at it now I can see that any first time visitor is not getting a clear message of what the ABD is all about. If you look at this site for example (PH) the front page is very focussed and whats behind it slowly leads you into the labyrinth of entertainment products and services etc. The ABD site is struggling to get literally hundreds of messages accross. All of them are valid but for a visitor to the site 1 message is enough as an introduction. (Maybe "the government is lying to you" would be a good start)
For the ABD to succeed it also needs to stop being so prescriptive in its solutions. For every pottential pro car activist, there are probably 1000 people who are just sick of being in traffic jams and would join an organistation that aimed to relieve that.
I cannot remember when the ABD was formed exactly but I think it was the late 80s so its been in existance for nearly 20 years and has 1000 members.
Its only real chance of success is to grow and I mean grow on an exponential scale. Its not going to happen if it continues to to carry all the messages rather than specialise in just one. Lets fact it Safespeed does a far better job of trashing the government lies than the ABD can ever do so why not just link to his stuff. I am sure turbobloke could provide better links to destroy the global warming myth (if thats what is desired). The real crux is that road transport is an emmotive issue and there are as many opinions as there are people and not all are valid but the people who hold those opinions are pottential members. Telling everyone that the speed limit should be 80 or even 90 mph 
and maybe more but unspecified in certain conditions. All of course in the face of Brake and the bottom lip quivering brigade responses of "Sob Sob they don't care they just want to kill the children boo hoo sob sob" Not exactly likely to be successful.
A far better aproach would be to take the government message and just simply run a negative campaign.
Speed cameras
Commit it to memery speed cameras kill
Bumps
Do a brake, have some tearful daughter leaving the hospital cos dad died cos the ambulance never got there quick enough Speed humps kill
And so on and so forth
No need for the ABD to offer alternative arguments and solutions, they can do that when they have 1 million members and £20M in corporate backing.
Sorry its such a long rant but I think someone needed to say it.
For the ABD to succeed it also needs to stop being so prescriptive in its solutions. For every pottential pro car activist, there are probably 1000 people who are just sick of being in traffic jams and would join an organistation that aimed to relieve that.
I cannot remember when the ABD was formed exactly but I think it was the late 80s so its been in existance for nearly 20 years and has 1000 members.
Its only real chance of success is to grow and I mean grow on an exponential scale. Its not going to happen if it continues to to carry all the messages rather than specialise in just one. Lets fact it Safespeed does a far better job of trashing the government lies than the ABD can ever do so why not just link to his stuff. I am sure turbobloke could provide better links to destroy the global warming myth (if thats what is desired). The real crux is that road transport is an emmotive issue and there are as many opinions as there are people and not all are valid but the people who hold those opinions are pottential members. Telling everyone that the speed limit should be 80 or even 90 mph and maybe more but unspecified in certain conditions. All of course in the face of Brake and the bottom lip quivering brigade responses of "Sob Sob they don't care they just want to kill the children boo hoo sob sob" Not exactly likely to be successful. A far better aproach would be to take the government message and just simply run a negative campaign.
Speed cameras
Commit it to memery speed cameras kill
Bumps
Do a brake, have some tearful daughter leaving the hospital cos dad died cos the ambulance never got there quick enough Speed humps kill
And so on and so forth
No need for the ABD to offer alternative arguments and solutions, they can do that when they have 1 million members and £20M in corporate backing.
Sorry its such a long rant but I think someone needed to say it.
Er, founded 1994 and now at 2,600 members - just over 6,200 if you count afilliated car clubs. T2000 have around 2,000. Slower Speeds Initiative - as far as I know - are in triple figures. No idea about Brake - when I asked they wouldn't tell me.
Media-wise, the ABD punches above its weight - a long way above. Last week I was interviewed twice for Central TV, did two one-hour phone ins on local radio stations, had quotes in the Mail and the Express, wrote a section for the BBC website. I spoke to the Mail about two more articles, talked to the Express about the new camera report (and explained that its author had been working with a camera partnership), and I've lost count of the local papers (Western Daily Press etc) I've spoken to. That's along with the transport planning meeting I went to at the local council. And that's just me - I know the other spokesmen were up to their arses in alligators too.
We're all volunteers, we don't get paid, so although there's a hell of a lot more we could do, there's a mortgage to pay and all that stuff. Nonegreen, we've done this one before a while ago, remember?
There are plenty of faults with the ABD - plenty. But I'll keep at it because I believe, along with Paul's SafeSpeed, that we make a difference. The biggest problem is that we don't have anyone full-time on this stuff - if we did, we could clean up - and I know Paul could as well.
Media-wise, the ABD punches above its weight - a long way above. Last week I was interviewed twice for Central TV, did two one-hour phone ins on local radio stations, had quotes in the Mail and the Express, wrote a section for the BBC website. I spoke to the Mail about two more articles, talked to the Express about the new camera report (and explained that its author had been working with a camera partnership), and I've lost count of the local papers (Western Daily Press etc) I've spoken to. That's along with the transport planning meeting I went to at the local council. And that's just me - I know the other spokesmen were up to their arses in alligators too.
We're all volunteers, we don't get paid, so although there's a hell of a lot more we could do, there's a mortgage to pay and all that stuff. Nonegreen, we've done this one before a while ago, remember?
There are plenty of faults with the ABD - plenty. But I'll keep at it because I believe, along with Paul's SafeSpeed, that we make a difference. The biggest problem is that we don't have anyone full-time on this stuff - if we did, we could clean up - and I know Paul could as well.
I was a member and didn't renew. No particular reason other than apathy I suppose.
I don't wish to bash the ABD - it's great to have a voice speaking out against some of the emotional nonsense thrown at drivers.
Ideally such an organisation should be representing motorists at large (like the AA did 50 years ago?). Unfortunately because of the speed camera issue everything becomes polarised as for/against and media use of the ABD is as the 'against' camp. The public's perception of the ABD is then one of being an anti-camera organisation rather than something more rounded.
I don't wish to bash the ABD - it's great to have a voice speaking out against some of the emotional nonsense thrown at drivers.
Ideally such an organisation should be representing motorists at large (like the AA did 50 years ago?). Unfortunately because of the speed camera issue everything becomes polarised as for/against and media use of the ABD is as the 'against' camp. The public's perception of the ABD is then one of being an anti-camera organisation rather than something more rounded.
I agree, Ted. Despite the fact we fight on rather more fronts than just speed cameras, they're what we've become known for. I don't doubt for a minute that there are people who would support our stance against congestion charging, for example, who won't join because they disagree with our stance on cameras.
I often think there's scope for yet another group who campaign for POSITIVE transport policies, rather than simply campaigning aginst existing policies.
I often think there's scope for yet another group who campaign for POSITIVE transport policies, rather than simply campaigning aginst existing policies.
MMC said:
Er, founded 1994 and now at 2,600 members - just over 6,200 if you count afilliated car clubs. T2000 have around 2,000. Slower Speeds Initiative - as far as I know - are in triple figures. No idea about Brake - when I asked they wouldn't tell me.
Media-wise, the ABD punches above its weight - a long way above. Last week I was interviewed twice for Central TV, did two one-hour phone ins on local radio stations, had quotes in the Mail and the Express, wrote a section for the BBC website. I spoke to the Mail about two more articles, talked to the Express about the new camera report (and explained that its author had been working with a camera partnership), and I've lost count of the local papers (Western Daily Press etc) I've spoken to. That's along with the transport planning meeting I went to at the local council. And that's just me - I know the other spokesmen were up to their arses in alligators too.
We're all volunteers, we don't get paid, so although there's a hell of a lot more we could do, there's a mortgage to pay and all that stuff. Nonegreen, we've done this one before a while ago, remember?
There are plenty of faults with the ABD - plenty. But I'll keep at it because I believe, along with Paul's SafeSpeed, that we make a difference. The biggest problem is that we don't have anyone full-time on this stuff - if we did, we could clean up - and I know Paul could as well.
I cant believe it was 94 when it was started I feel old now. I do remember Mark and I was not having a go at you so don't be hurt. I was trying to distil some thoughts and ideas which have been brewing for a while. I think positively about the ABD and I was simply thinking out load really about what kinds of strategy seem to be working for the other camp and how they may be modified and adopted. I will shut my face if you like
PetrolTed said:
The public's perception of the ABD is then one of being an anti-camera organisation rather than something more rounded.
That perception of the ABD seems common among people I've spoken too, and personally I think the name SafeSpeed encourages a similar misunderstanding. However, I think this perception is unfounded, and I support the work of both organisations.
Edited to add: personally, I think these organisations are promoting road safety and I think a name that reflected this would make them more attractive to the general public.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Saturday 12th February 11:49
nonegreen said:
I cant believe it was 94 when it was started I feel old now. I do remember Mark and I was not having a go at you so don't be hurt. I was trying to distil some thoughts and ideas which have been brewing for a while. I think positively about the ABD and I was simply thinking out load really about what kinds of strategy seem to be working for the other camp and how they may be modified and adopted. I will shut my face if you like
Didn't think you were taking a pop - so no offence taken! You've definitely got a point about strategies. We could learn a lot from the way Brake operates - we rely far too much on logic, and I think we should keep doing so - but there's a definite place for some more emotive stuff.
For example, I found out last week that Brake have a bank of people who've lost relatives through crashes on whom journalists can call. The ABD should have something similar - to put the opposite point of view. Part of me is repulsed by this sort of thing, but I can't deny it's been hugely effective for Brake...
MMC said:
Brake have a bank of people who've lost relatives through crashes on whom journalists can call. The ABD should have something similar - to put the opposite point of view. Part of me is repulsed by this sort of thing, but I can't deny it's been hugely effective for Brake...
you're not the only one who's repulsed. :shakesheadindisgustsmilie:
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