Buying a car that has been left at a garage for 2 years ?
Discussion
Hi there i hope some one can advise on the following situation.
I am interested in buying a car that was left at a garage for some restoration work to be completed.
The garage owner did a fair amount of work but when he chased the owner for payment the owner had disappeared and he couldn't find him.
The garage now want to sell the car to recoup there loss as they have been unable to contact the owner (it has been two years since the car was dropped off).
How do i stand if i purchase the car and then try to register it as mine ?
I would have an invoice off the garage stating the reason the car was sold.
Could the original owner try and reclaim the car leaving me out of pocket ?
Whats the best way to proceed with this ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
I am interested in buying a car that was left at a garage for some restoration work to be completed.
The garage owner did a fair amount of work but when he chased the owner for payment the owner had disappeared and he couldn't find him.
The garage now want to sell the car to recoup there loss as they have been unable to contact the owner (it has been two years since the car was dropped off).
How do i stand if i purchase the car and then try to register it as mine ?
I would have an invoice off the garage stating the reason the car was sold.
Could the original owner try and reclaim the car leaving me out of pocket ?
Whats the best way to proceed with this ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
You need to satisfy yourself that the garage has lawful title to it.
I bought an MX bike taken as payment against unpaid storage and repair fees. MX bikes don't have registration docs, so I relied on a letter from the previous owner to the repair workshop, stating that it was theirs to sell, plus their receipt to me stating the same.
In your case I'd be looking for something similar, though I stress that I'm no lawyer.
I bought an MX bike taken as payment against unpaid storage and repair fees. MX bikes don't have registration docs, so I relied on a letter from the previous owner to the repair workshop, stating that it was theirs to sell, plus their receipt to me stating the same.
In your case I'd be looking for something similar, though I stress that I'm no lawyer.
I'd say that you don't really want to do this. Even if you look at the statutes regarding this and get legal advice, you will be left with a risk that a dispute with the previous owner arises at some point in the future.
You won't be able to get a convincing no-risk outcome.
However if the reward is high (the car is a real 73RS and the garage only wants 10k for it for example), then perhaps you can set about some risk mitigation activities.
Maybe get the garage to apply for a V5 (no proof of ownership) and see if they get it
Read the contract between the garage and the owner for the work
Get the owner's details and check them out for yourself. Try to contact, visit his last address, look on facebook etc
Pay the garage 50% when you have a V5 (no proof of ownership) in your name and 50% in 2 years time
Agree a contract with the garage that they indemnify you against losses as a result of an ownership dispute
And any others we can think of.
If it's money you can afford to lose, then go for it and fill yer boots. Otherwise proceed with caution!
Bert
You won't be able to get a convincing no-risk outcome.
However if the reward is high (the car is a real 73RS and the garage only wants 10k for it for example), then perhaps you can set about some risk mitigation activities.
Maybe get the garage to apply for a V5 (no proof of ownership) and see if they get it
Read the contract between the garage and the owner for the work
Get the owner's details and check them out for yourself. Try to contact, visit his last address, look on facebook etc
Pay the garage 50% when you have a V5 (no proof of ownership) in your name and 50% in 2 years time
Agree a contract with the garage that they indemnify you against losses as a result of an ownership dispute
And any others we can think of.
If it's money you can afford to lose, then go for it and fill yer boots. Otherwise proceed with caution!
Bert
BertBert said:
Pay the garage 50% when you have a V5 (no proof of ownership) in your name and 50% in 2 years time
Isn't the garage selling the goods to cover missed payment? Suggesting that you don't fancy paying 50% for two years hardly sounds like a deal they'd be remotely interested in! MDMetal said:
BertBert said:
Pay the garage 50% when you have a V5 (no proof of ownership) in your name and 50% in 2 years time
Isn't the garage selling the goods to cover missed payment? Suggesting that you don't fancy paying 50% for two years hardly sounds like a deal they'd be remotely interested in! Bert
BertBert said:
MDMetal said:
BertBert said:
Pay the garage 50% when you have a V5 (no proof of ownership) in your name and 50% in 2 years time
Isn't the garage selling the goods to cover missed payment? Suggesting that you don't fancy paying 50% for two years hardly sounds like a deal they'd be remotely interested in! Bert
There's a process that the garage can go through to gain legal ownership of the car.
Breadvan did a very good precis of it with the relevant statute - have a search, it was maybe a year ago. In short, as long as they have done this (effectively send the right letters to the owner) then as long as the garage has disposed of the car reasonably, there is no comeback. Then, the car belongs to the garage, then the title can be lawfully transferred.
If it's a car costing a reasonable amount, it might be worth the garage spending a couple of hundred quid to get the legal advice for the correct process to follow, with the knowledge that the owner is never likely going to come back for the cash, and thus they are quids in.
I would not not buy the car unless this paperwork was in place so that should something arise in future, I could get out the folder of paperwork showing the garage gaining ownership and selling to me with title.
Breadvan did a very good precis of it with the relevant statute - have a search, it was maybe a year ago. In short, as long as they have done this (effectively send the right letters to the owner) then as long as the garage has disposed of the car reasonably, there is no comeback. Then, the car belongs to the garage, then the title can be lawfully transferred.
If it's a car costing a reasonable amount, it might be worth the garage spending a couple of hundred quid to get the legal advice for the correct process to follow, with the knowledge that the owner is never likely going to come back for the cash, and thus they are quids in.
I would not not buy the car unless this paperwork was in place so that should something arise in future, I could get out the folder of paperwork showing the garage gaining ownership and selling to me with title.
See also this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In summary (as I understood the legal points on that thread, IANAL etc) the garage can only recover their debts due to unpaid costs from the sale and should return any profit to the original owner. No doubt their storage charges will be as extortionate as the local clamper's pound...
In summary (as I understood the legal points on that thread, IANAL etc) the garage can only recover their debts due to unpaid costs from the sale and should return any profit to the original owner. No doubt their storage charges will be as extortionate as the local clamper's pound...
JustinP1 said:
There's a process that the garage can go through to gain legal ownership of the car.
Breadvan did a very good precis of it with the relevant statute - have a search, it was maybe a year ago. In short, as long as they have done this (effectively send the right letters to the owner) then as long as the garage has disposed of the car reasonably, there is no comeback. Then, the car belongs to the garage, then the title can be lawfully transferred.
.Breadvan did a very good precis of it with the relevant statute - have a search, it was maybe a year ago. In short, as long as they have done this (effectively send the right letters to the owner) then as long as the garage has disposed of the car reasonably, there is no comeback. Then, the car belongs to the garage, then the title can be lawfully transferred.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/sectio...
JustinP1 said:
I would not not buy the car unless this paperwork was in place so that should something arise in future, I could get out the folder of paperwork showing the garage gaining ownership and selling to me with title.
^^This^^ It is crucial that there is an evidential trail that the garage has acquired good title. If not, walk away.MDMetal said:
Indeed but any suggestion of withholding payment would probably be a non starter. Proof of the garages ownership and right to sell is what's needed and an understanding of if it's worth any potential risk.
How hard can it be? If you want to disagree that's fine, but at least show you actually understood what I said in the first place. To recap... I said it is almost impossible to be certain that the garage has the legal right to sell the car. So there is risk in the purchase for the OP. The best thing to do is mitigate that risk. Then I listed some possibilities including a deferred payment.So to be clear, I disagree with what you say. (Absolute) Proof the the garage's ownership will not be forthcoming. If it were to be available (as you say it should be), then the OP would not need to understand potential risk as there would be none.
Bert
Have a look at section 12 of and schedule 1 to the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977. At common law, the garage has a lien over the car, which gives it a right of possession pending payment, but not a right to sell the car. Statute has intervened, and it may be possible for the garage to sell the car by following the procedure set out in the 1977 Act.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/conten...
EDIT: Red Devil beat me to it.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32/conten...
EDIT: Red Devil beat me to it.
alphaone said:
What a wedge shed piece of s
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