Police numbers - deja vu
Discussion
I’ve been clearing out my loft and I found some research I completed for defence against severe criticism of my being honest to a round table group I was told to host one evening. They were from a coastal town of nearly 100,000 residents and about 15,000 tourists. I showed them just how many patrolling officers they had to protect their family whilst they were at Police HQ. They were shocked. I didn't need the defence, and I was never called back to work (after a full day's early turn). The article is from April 2002 in The Times. It was in with a few other press reports on police numbers, going back to Howard, through Straw to the worst Home Sec in my time, Blunket. I posted these figures, in general terms, on a couple of other threads and there were suggestions I was making it up.
The article states:
“Britain’s towns and cities are facing an unprecedented crisis in police numbers.
“Southampton, with 215,000 inhabitants, can sometimes muster only seven officers to patrol the streets. In Reading, with 200,000 people, numbers sometimes fall to 10 and in Herefordshire some 999 callers will not see a police officer for three days.
“In Lille, northern France, with a smaller population [of] 174,000, 150 police were on duty last Friday night. In America, Jackson, Mississippi, with 200,000 inhabitants, had 48 officers on patrol and 44 ready to respond to emergency calls.
“In London, the Metropolitan police has lost almost 800 officers in the past year [as a result of government funding restrictions], bringing its strength below 26,000.”
In a reply to a press question, we were told that a Home Office spokesperson had said that:
“5,000 extra officers would be provided and insisted that new technology and more efficient policing could also help.”
Not strictly true. If memory serves, and the notes alongside the report are correct, it was money earmarked for such things as IT systems and had already been swallowed up in the reductions. In any case it was supposedly the cost equivalent to 5,000 officers. However, that was 5,000 officers in a rural county, without any on-costs, such as uniform, training, etc.
Or, as many would have put it, a lie.
There had been a series of cuts to funding under the conservatives from post miners' strike. Not massive, just consistent, plus fiddling with agreed way negotiation machinery. The biggest hit was the Police and Criminal Evidence Act which, whilst supported by almost all police officers I knew, at least after a settling in period, was not properly funded. This reduction in funding continued under labour where promises of an increase in police officers was nothing more than myth. If only the same could be said of the reduction in numbers under the tories.
The figures for patrol officers at the English towns quoted above are now pie in the sky of course. The figures for France includes a tactical reserve of officers who do not patrol, rather like the patrolling officers the current HomSec says are in English and Welsh towns.
There are no reserves of officers in the UK.
In 2002 there was an unprecedented crisis in police numbers. Police numbers dropped steadily in the following 8 years, in order to ensure we were 'tough on crime'. Since Cameron and the woman desperate to be his replacement have been in power, police numbers have dropped dramatically.
The article states:
“Britain’s towns and cities are facing an unprecedented crisis in police numbers.
“Southampton, with 215,000 inhabitants, can sometimes muster only seven officers to patrol the streets. In Reading, with 200,000 people, numbers sometimes fall to 10 and in Herefordshire some 999 callers will not see a police officer for three days.
“In Lille, northern France, with a smaller population [of] 174,000, 150 police were on duty last Friday night. In America, Jackson, Mississippi, with 200,000 inhabitants, had 48 officers on patrol and 44 ready to respond to emergency calls.
“In London, the Metropolitan police has lost almost 800 officers in the past year [as a result of government funding restrictions], bringing its strength below 26,000.”
In a reply to a press question, we were told that a Home Office spokesperson had said that:
“5,000 extra officers would be provided and insisted that new technology and more efficient policing could also help.”
Not strictly true. If memory serves, and the notes alongside the report are correct, it was money earmarked for such things as IT systems and had already been swallowed up in the reductions. In any case it was supposedly the cost equivalent to 5,000 officers. However, that was 5,000 officers in a rural county, without any on-costs, such as uniform, training, etc.
Or, as many would have put it, a lie.
There had been a series of cuts to funding under the conservatives from post miners' strike. Not massive, just consistent, plus fiddling with agreed way negotiation machinery. The biggest hit was the Police and Criminal Evidence Act which, whilst supported by almost all police officers I knew, at least after a settling in period, was not properly funded. This reduction in funding continued under labour where promises of an increase in police officers was nothing more than myth. If only the same could be said of the reduction in numbers under the tories.
The figures for patrol officers at the English towns quoted above are now pie in the sky of course. The figures for France includes a tactical reserve of officers who do not patrol, rather like the patrolling officers the current HomSec says are in English and Welsh towns.
There are no reserves of officers in the UK.
In 2002 there was an unprecedented crisis in police numbers. Police numbers dropped steadily in the following 8 years, in order to ensure we were 'tough on crime'. Since Cameron and the woman desperate to be his replacement have been in power, police numbers have dropped dramatically.
. 
Fab32 said:
For all those that think that policing has not been affected you just haven't needed a officer.
I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
Unfortunately a large proportion of the public don't care about police numbers - until they are a victim of crime.I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
Unfortunately it will probably take a major incident (which the police will be unable to cope with) to draw more attention to the issue.
Horse, stable door, comes to mind.
Fab32 said:
For all those that think that policing has not been affected you just haven't needed a officer.
I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
I suppose it depends on your priorities, There always seems to plenty of 'responders' about if a slightly 'amusing' incident kicks off or someone finds a random comment by someone else in another part of the country totally irrelevant to them offensive.I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
With that in mind I'm not worrying too much about the numbers yet although they are probably skewed and made to fit from what I've seen of 'official' figs & bulls
t in Gov depts.
Red 4 said:
Fab32 said:
For all those that think that policing has not been affected you just haven't needed a officer.
I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
Unfortunately a large proportion of the public don't care about police numbers - until they are a victim of crime.I work with the police and they are stretched beyond the limit, it's only a matter of time before something hits the headlines.
Unfortunately it will probably take a major incident (which the police will be unable to cope with) to draw more attention to the issue.
Horse, stable door, comes to mind.
The only issue with a major incident is that should something happen like a mass shooting by IS, yes the police won't be able to respond effectively but Teresa May will state that it was the fault of the police so many people died because they didn't respond quick enough or evolve and spend money more effectively.
She has no idea of policing any more than Tom Windsor does.
speedyguy said:
I suppose it depends on your priorities, There always seems to plenty of 'responders' about if a slightly 'amusing' incident kicks off or someone finds a random comment by someone else in another part of the country totally irrelevant to them offensive.
With that in mind I'm not worrying too much about the numbers yet although they are probably skewed and made to fit from what I've seen of 'official' figs & bullst in Gov depts.
The problem with drawing conclusions is like that is you need a faulty thought process to get there. With that in mind I'm not worrying too much about the numbers yet although they are probably skewed and made to fit from what I've seen of 'official' figs & bulls
t in Gov depts.Choosing "priorities" doesn't mean neglecting a crime / investigation you don't personally approve of when there are lines of enquiry. The flawed logic is essentially, 'if there are more serious things to deal with then the minor things shouldn't be addressed'.
Another aspect is statistical perspective. There were 13 million incidents last year for the police. It's somewhat easy to find 'fringe' matters and present them as if they have greater significance than they do.
RogueTrooper said:
I find a particularly ironic enjoyment in the pronouncements of HMIC that forces aren't coping well with staff reductions while attempting to prioritise every kind of incident and crime.
My favourite line from HMIC is the critical review of aspects of the 'protective services' umbrella of policing. I remember when they couldn't care less about this area of policing because the government were so focused on crime / reductions and detections. Senior Detectives despaired when the strategic decisions were made remove officers from that area to another because the HMIC were critical the police forces weren't hitting mainly useless targets.
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