Parking, pavements and the law
Discussion
I know there are a lot of parking thread on PH, but i feel i have a genuine reason to be pissed off at the parking that i am having to put up with daily.
We have cars park 100% on the pavement (all four wheels) entirely blocking it. This sometimes leads to vehicles actually blocking access too our front door! .
First port of call was to speak to owners or leave notes if i miss them. This seems to have little effect and if one person stops parking poorly, another car just takes their place.
I have been in contact with the company that manages our flats / the development and the company that deals with "outside spaces" on the development. Nothing has so far been done, but it is on-going. My moan is that they contacted the police, and have forwarded the emails to me. Which go as follows (shortened obvisouly)
Parking is only illegal if vehicles are blocking the pavement or a pushchair/wheelchair could not get passes, we will go and have a look and see if we can do anything
...
We have been down to have a look and we agree, the parking is poor and blocking the pavements. However we will not be taking any action as if the vehicles were parked in the road, they would be blocking the road instead
Is it acceptable for them to ignore this having accepted that the parking is unlawful?
Obviously my view is that the cars should f
k off and park somewhere else entirely, and this shouldn't be a a police issue in the first place (they are busy enough)
An example of the parking in question...
We have cars park 100% on the pavement (all four wheels) entirely blocking it. This sometimes leads to vehicles actually blocking access too our front door! .
First port of call was to speak to owners or leave notes if i miss them. This seems to have little effect and if one person stops parking poorly, another car just takes their place.
I have been in contact with the company that manages our flats / the development and the company that deals with "outside spaces" on the development. Nothing has so far been done, but it is on-going. My moan is that they contacted the police, and have forwarded the emails to me. Which go as follows (shortened obvisouly)
Parking is only illegal if vehicles are blocking the pavement or a pushchair/wheelchair could not get passes, we will go and have a look and see if we can do anything
...
We have been down to have a look and we agree, the parking is poor and blocking the pavements. However we will not be taking any action as if the vehicles were parked in the road, they would be blocking the road instead
Is it acceptable for them to ignore this having accepted that the parking is unlawful?
Obviously my view is that the cars should f
k off and park somewhere else entirely, and this shouldn't be a a police issue in the first place (they are busy enough)An example of the parking in question...
Edited by jimmy156 on Wednesday 16th December 20:47
The offence is unnecessary obstruction - Section 42 Road Traffic Act 1988.
The email you say you received from the police seems a little bizarre - push chairs etc. don't come into it. If you can't get past the vehicle on the footpath it's an obstruction !
I suspect the police may be trying to say that if the vehicles were not parked on the footpath then they would obstruct the road making access for emergency vehicles, etc a problem.
Frankly, that's irrelevant too. The vehicles should not be parked on the footpath and they must park legally on the road (again, not causing an obstruction)..
However, from looking at your photo I think the problem may lie with the design/ construction of the estate.
Doesn't mean it isn't an offence though. Try and speak to the officer who sent the email and see if you can get a more reasoned explanation as to why they are not prepared to take any action.
The email you say you received from the police seems a little bizarre - push chairs etc. don't come into it. If you can't get past the vehicle on the footpath it's an obstruction !
I suspect the police may be trying to say that if the vehicles were not parked on the footpath then they would obstruct the road making access for emergency vehicles, etc a problem.
Frankly, that's irrelevant too. The vehicles should not be parked on the footpath and they must park legally on the road (again, not causing an obstruction)..
However, from looking at your photo I think the problem may lie with the design/ construction of the estate.
Doesn't mean it isn't an offence though. Try and speak to the officer who sent the email and see if you can get a more reasoned explanation as to why they are not prepared to take any action.
Edited by Red 4 on Wednesday 16th December 20:53
Red 4 said:
The offence is unnecessary obstruction - Section 42 Road Traffic Act 1988.
The email you say you received from the police seems a little bizarre - push chairs etc. don't come into it. If you can't get past the vehicle on the footpath it's an obstruction !
I suspect the police may be trying to say that if the vehicles were not parked on the footpath then they would obstruct the road making access for emergency vehicles, etc a problem.
Frankly, that's irrelevant.
However, from looking at your photo I think the problem may lie with the design/ construction of the estate.
Doesn't mean it isn't an offence though.
I agree on all counts... The pavement is deliberately wide to stop cars parking on the road (which would be wider) but they just bump up completely onto the curb instead... Ontop of this planning rules mean that developments are designed to not have enough parking.The email you say you received from the police seems a little bizarre - push chairs etc. don't come into it. If you can't get past the vehicle on the footpath it's an obstruction !
I suspect the police may be trying to say that if the vehicles were not parked on the footpath then they would obstruct the road making access for emergency vehicles, etc a problem.
Frankly, that's irrelevant.
However, from looking at your photo I think the problem may lie with the design/ construction of the estate.
Doesn't mean it isn't an offence though.
However, as you say, that doesn't get around the fact that the parking is illegal...
ETA the view out of my front door...
Edited by jimmy156 on Wednesday 16th December 21:00
jimmy156 said:
Yup, just clocked that! I have the first name of the PCSO, so may wander down to the station over the weekend, it is very local, good idea!
Fair enough - if you do then forget s.42 RTA 1988 (my mistake).The offence is covered under Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations 1986 - Regulation 103.
jimmy156 said:
Yup, just clocked that! I have the first name of the PCSO, so may wander down to the station over the weekend, it is very local, good idea!
Are you really telling us you have a police station just down the road and that it is open at weekends as well? Which town boasts this miraculous provision? Or are we talking about the snug in the Dog & Duck? The PH massive need to know! 
Where I used to live a brand spanking new 5 storey high police station together with a large two level garage/parking area was built on a substantial town centre site at considerable cost in 1984. Over time opening hours were gradually whittled down so that there was no public counter service after 5pm and none at all at weekends. Not that long after the dawn of the 21st century it was slashed to a mere two hours each day on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. The majority of the building was mothballed after an operational life of less than 20 years. A very poor ROI imo. It was closed completely in 2013 (after I had moved from the town) and now the contact point is a cubicle with a desk and a phone in the local library for two hours on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. The old site site is being redeveloped to provide 83 new homes.
The townsfolk are getting a brand spanking new facility though. A cinema on an adjacent plot. Yippety-doo-dah!
The planning department which passed the development in your picture must have been tripping out on speed. It's a given that either the pavement or the road will end up being blocked. A lose/lose situation either way which is entirely the fault of either government planning policy or the Council officers: possibly a combination of both.
It's a real world issue which, even if it makes you happy by displacing them to make it someone else's problem (where, exactly?), won't solve anything in the long term. It boils down to which is the lesser of two evils.
Good point, they are probably closed over the weekend. Another time maybe.
Your storey sounds almost exactly like Godalming, except I don't think they are getting a cinema.
I agree the problem is created by the planning and design of the development. However when I moved in, I knew we had 1x garage and 1x parking space. So we have not had more than 2 vehicles. Other residents move in and have 4 cars, knowing they only have 2 spaces. Or they have 2 cars, but use the garage for storage and park the car elsewhere. Only one of the vehicles in the images actually belongs to someone in our building.
The owners / tenants are in breach of there deeds of covenant / lease by parking in this way, they would have known this when they moved in.
Your storey sounds almost exactly like Godalming, except I don't think they are getting a cinema.
I agree the problem is created by the planning and design of the development. However when I moved in, I knew we had 1x garage and 1x parking space. So we have not had more than 2 vehicles. Other residents move in and have 4 cars, knowing they only have 2 spaces. Or they have 2 cars, but use the garage for storage and park the car elsewhere. Only one of the vehicles in the images actually belongs to someone in our building.
The owners / tenants are in breach of there deeds of covenant / lease by parking in this way, they would have known this when they moved in.
Given that it's private land, I'm not sure that any offence has actually been committed.
The management of your development are being shonky, yes - are there some kind of periodic meetings with them? Some kind of resident forum?
Could you get a petition of residents together to kick their backsides in gear? Start with those you know to be sympathetic, and work your way around to those who you think are the culprits. When you knock on their door, be friendly - "Hello, most of your neighbours have signed a petition to the site management about the parking that's causing obstructions around the site - would you like to sign it?". It might well give 'em a subtle nudge that they're causing a problem. Go in all guns blazing - "THIS IS YOU, DICKSPLASH" - and you're just going to get the barriers up.
The cause of the problem, though, is clearly inadequate parking on-site. Would you be happy for your maintenance charges to go up to pay for more parking to be provided?
The management of your development are being shonky, yes - are there some kind of periodic meetings with them? Some kind of resident forum?
Could you get a petition of residents together to kick their backsides in gear? Start with those you know to be sympathetic, and work your way around to those who you think are the culprits. When you knock on their door, be friendly - "Hello, most of your neighbours have signed a petition to the site management about the parking that's causing obstructions around the site - would you like to sign it?". It might well give 'em a subtle nudge that they're causing a problem. Go in all guns blazing - "THIS IS YOU, DICKSPLASH" - and you're just going to get the barriers up.
The cause of the problem, though, is clearly inadequate parking on-site. Would you be happy for your maintenance charges to go up to pay for more parking to be provided?
The problem is planning. Planners live in another world where not having enough parking will mean people will use public transport. Unfortunately all that happens is what you are seeing.
My brother lives on a modern housing estate and they get one parking space per house. There are no front gardens, and hardly any paths. The roads are block paving so the paths/roads are one really. Cars just park where they can which normally means you open your front door to a car parked 2ft away.
We are essentially going back to Victorian planning with no consideration for vehicle traffic or parking.
My brother lives on a modern housing estate and they get one parking space per house. There are no front gardens, and hardly any paths. The roads are block paving so the paths/roads are one really. Cars just park where they can which normally means you open your front door to a car parked 2ft away.
We are essentially going back to Victorian planning with no consideration for vehicle traffic or parking.
Is this public highway? Doesn't look like it, if not the usual rules may not apply.
As for the development site blaming it on the planners is a bit rich, although they clearly have an effect I'm sure most of the developers don't mind, cars take space and that space could be used for more housing and therefore more profit! If you need 1+ cars then you need to think about where you want to live.
Clearly a balance needs to be reached but uncontrolled car ownership helps no one, we just don't have the space!
As for the development site blaming it on the planners is a bit rich, although they clearly have an effect I'm sure most of the developers don't mind, cars take space and that space could be used for more housing and therefore more profit! If you need 1+ cars then you need to think about where you want to live.
Clearly a balance needs to be reached but uncontrolled car ownership helps no one, we just don't have the space!
Many people assume that 'Unadopted private roads' have different rules. They don't. If the public have access it will be classed as a public highway. They same laws apply. Have a word with the sgt at your station. If this was my area, those cars in the photo would all be getting obstruction tickets on the windscreen.
HantsRat said:
Many people assume that 'Unadopted private roads' have different rules. They don't. If the public have access it will be classed as a public highway. They same laws apply. Have a word with the sgt at your station. If this was my area, those cars in the photo would all be getting obstruction tickets on the windscreen.
True but I'm yet to come across a council writing a TMO to control parking on land they are not the highway authority/owner of. Although happy to be corrected.I'd be contacting the council where the plans for the development are held and checking whether the actual road and footpath widths comply with the plans and whether the plans comply with the highways department's requirements. Get your councillor and your MP involved and send a photo or two to your local paper.
jimmy156 said:
.......Parking is only illegal if vehicles are blocking the pavement or a pushchair/wheelchair could not get passes, we will go and have a look and see if we can do anything
...
We have been down to have a look and we agree, the parking is poor and blocking the pavements. However we will not be taking any action as if the vehicles were parked in the road, they would be blocking the road instead.......
So they're more than happy that people in wheelchairs, using pushchairs/prams, mobility scooters, walking frames etc., are being forced to have to use the road rather than the footpath, putting them at risk of being hit by moving vehicles?...
We have been down to have a look and we agree, the parking is poor and blocking the pavements. However we will not be taking any action as if the vehicles were parked in the road, they would be blocking the road instead.......
That is p
ss poor to say the least!If the vehicles cannot be parked without obstructing either the footpath or the road, then they shouldn't be parked there at all!
I'd try contacting your local press and see if they would do an article on why the Police are happy to have peoples safety put at risk in order for others to park close to their homes.
Type R Tom said:
True but I'm yet to come across a council writing a TMO to control parking on land they are not the highway authority/owner of. Although happy to be corrected.
You don't need a TMO for the examples above. They are plainly causing unnecessary obstruction which the police can deal with. techmoan said:
Type R Tom said:
True but I'm yet to come across a council writing a TMO to control parking on land they are not the highway authority/owner of. Although happy to be corrected.
You don't need a TMO for the examples above. They are plainly causing unnecessary obstruction which the police can deal with. You can just imagine the next post on PH “look at these policemen wasting time giving cars tickets, why aren’t they out catching muggers!”
This needs probably sorting out either with a TMO or one of those dreadful parking companies.
Type R Tom said:
Is this public highway? Doesn't look like it, if not the usual rules may not apply.
What matters for the purposes of the reg 103 of the construction and use regs is is the area a "road" i.e. any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes. Who owns it or maintains it is irrelevant.
From the pictures provided the area in question is almost certainly a road.
Cat
Cat said:
What matters for the purposes of the reg 103 of the construction and use regs is is the area a "road" i.e. any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes.
Who owns it or maintains it is irrelevant.
From the pictures provided the area in question is almost certainly a road.
Cat
The regulations etc. it comes under is irrelevant, this type of thing is covered under multiple acts/laws but since parking enforcement is a council matter (generally) as far as the police are concerned and is an extremely low priority. I’d love to know how many prosecutions a year there are under this part of constructions and use. Until this road is public highway and a TMO is written or a private parking company is employed, things are unlikely to change. Who owns it or maintains it is irrelevant.
From the pictures provided the area in question is almost certainly a road.
Cat
It’s clearly not right or fair but let’s be realistic, unless the OP gets the ear of someone powerful things are unlikely to change. Can the police issue a ticket for road vehicles (construction and use) regulations 1986 section 103?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff