Insurance - is this legal?
Discussion
Friend sells me his car (Car A) for a pittance. Registered keeper details transferred via the V5.
I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
mcgandalf said:
Friend sells me his car (Car A) for a pittance. Registered keeper details transferred via the V5.
I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
No, the Driving Other Cars cover you have on car B is for cars not owned by you. But you owned car A! So the tpo cover doesn't apply.I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
mcgandalf said:
Friend sells me his car (Car A) for a pittance. Registered keeper details transferred via the V5.
I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
Eh? What insurable interest does your friend have in a car that he no longer has any title to? He's not your spouse is he?I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
LoonR1 will correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds just as iffy as your mistaken idea about DOC cover.
mcgandalf said:
Friend sells me his car
I own another car...- and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?)
Read it closely. I bet it excludes vehicles owned by the policyholder. So, no, you are not covered to drive your other car.I own another car...- and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?)
What is the legal definition of 'ownership' of a car?
Registered Keeper = the chap on the V5C responsible for taxing the vehicle.
Owner = who? The chap who paid money to someone in return for the car? What if my friend gifted the car to me FOC and told me he didn't want anything to do with it anymore?
Registered Keeper = the chap on the V5C responsible for taxing the vehicle.
Owner = who? The chap who paid money to someone in return for the car? What if my friend gifted the car to me FOC and told me he didn't want anything to do with it anymore?
mcgandalf said:
What is the legal definition of 'ownership' of a car?
Registered Keeper = the chap on the V5C responsible for taxing the vehicle.
Owner = who? The chap who paid money to someone in return for the car? What if my friend gifted the car to me FOC and told me he didn't want anything to do with it anymore?
You would still be the owner. Like you are with any Christmas presents you were given.Registered Keeper = the chap on the V5C responsible for taxing the vehicle.
Owner = who? The chap who paid money to someone in return for the car? What if my friend gifted the car to me FOC and told me he didn't want anything to do with it anymore?
mcgandalf said:
What is the legal definition of 'ownership' of a car?
Who owns it.mcgandalf said:
What if my friend gifted the car to me FOC and told me he didn't want anything to do with it anymore?
Then it would be yours.What if he only said "you can borrow it for a few months"? Then it would still be his.
Just out of interest, who's getting stiffed out of the proceeds of the sale - ex-wife, business partner or HMRC? One of them may have something to say about selling an asset at below Market Value.
Of course you could just have a very generous friend, in which case just get him to sell you the car and give you the proceeds, I'm sure it would be much easier.
Of course you could just have a very generous friend, in which case just get him to sell you the car and give you the proceeds, I'm sure it would be much easier.
mcgandalf said:
Friend sells me his car (Car A) for a pittance. Registered keeper details transferred via the V5.
I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
First of all, by purchasing Car A, it becomes yours, as supported by the fact that you have recently become the registered keeper (bearing in mind that being the RK isn't proof of ownership but that's a moot point). I hang on to the car for a few weeks - drive it a (very) little. Friend *may* drive it a few times as well.
I then sell the car to someone else at a profit.
Car remains insured fully comp by my friend. He ends the insurance policy when I sell the vehicle to the third party.
I own another car (Car B) which I insure fully comp - and my policy for Car B allows me to drive other vehicles with the owner's permission (whoever this owner may be?), with third party coverage. I assume that this will cover me for the few times I run Car A to the shops and back again.
Is this legal?
(Apologies if this has been done to death.)
I would assume that your friend, when he was taking out the insurance policy, confirmed to the insurance company that he was the main driver as well as the registered keeper of the car. Consequently, unless your friend informs the insurance company of the change in the RK, he would breach the terms of the policy the moment that you become the RK. Therefore the company would be well within their rights to say that the policy is null and void if and when they find out, e.g. if you or your friend have an accident. In this circumstance, the terms of the DOC cover on your policy are irrelevant because technically the car would be on the road without insurance and therefore not being used legally; it's just that until you have an accident, the paperwork would falsely prove the existence of a policy.
Now, if your friend informs his insurance company of the change of RK/ownership, and the company continue to provide insurance cover, then the car would be on the road legally. At this point, the legality of you driving car A depends on the exact wording of your policy for car B. If, like many but probably not all policies, it excludes cars owned by the policy holder (check this point carefully under the exclusions of the DOC, not where its requirements are), then it wouldn't cover you for driving car A. ONLY IF it doesnt exclude cars owned by the policy holder, then you can drive car A under your policy for car B.
In short, it would only cover you under a very specific condition which is unlikely to exist. Whether you take the risk of driving it under the current terms of the policies, where not much would happen unless you have an accident, is down to you. Not a risk I would take.
Conclusion - friend submits the change of RK details via the V5 to the DVLA. At some indeterminable point I then become the RK. The DVLA will send the amended V5 to me as proof of this. I must then insure the car via my own policy of some description. Not a DOC policy.
When do I need to start insuring this car I now 'own'? At the point when my friend posts the V5 change slip to the DVLA, or at the point when I receive the brand new V5 from the DVLA?
(Maybe the V5 change slip - which does have a proper name, I now - has an 'effective from' date. I don't have a specimen in front of me.)
Reason I ask is because I'm minded to buy a new instance policy for the car and cancel it within the two week cooling-off period once I've sold the car to a third party. When do I need to start this two week period?
When do I need to start insuring this car I now 'own'? At the point when my friend posts the V5 change slip to the DVLA, or at the point when I receive the brand new V5 from the DVLA?
(Maybe the V5 change slip - which does have a proper name, I now - has an 'effective from' date. I don't have a specimen in front of me.)
Reason I ask is because I'm minded to buy a new instance policy for the car and cancel it within the two week cooling-off period once I've sold the car to a third party. When do I need to start this two week period?
Roo said:
You own the car as soon as you take ownership of it from your friend. You will need to tax and insure it from that moment onwards.
This single point of transfer of 'ownership' is vague however. The car is currently parked outside my house, I have a key and I could get in it and drive it whenever I like. I would consider myself insured under my DOC wording. The car remains registered in my friend's name. I haven't given him a penny for it yet. I am likely (but by no means certainly) going to be the only person to drive the old shed from now on).
My friend could head over to mine at any point, use his keys to get in the car and drive away. He probably won't, however - but I wouldn't object to him doing so. The car is still full of his muddy wellies and LeAnn Rimes CD collection.
Who owns the car currently?
I've answered my own question - there is a field for 'date of sale or transfer' under the New Keeper details on a V5.
Does anyone know what the DVLA turnaround time for a V5 change of RK process is?
I plan to list the car on eBay immediately on the date of transfer and sell or WBAC it within 2 weeks of that point.
Does anyone know what the DVLA turnaround time for a V5 change of RK process is?
I plan to list the car on eBay immediately on the date of transfer and sell or WBAC it within 2 weeks of that point.
mcgandalf said:
Roo said:
You own the car as soon as you take ownership of it from your friend. You will need to tax and insure it from that moment onwards.
This single point of transfer of 'ownership' is vague however. The car is currently parked outside my house, I have a key and I could get in it and drive it whenever I like. I would consider myself insured under my DOC wording. The car remains registered in my friend's name. I haven't given him a penny for it yet. I am likely (but by no means certainly) going to be the only person to drive the old shed from now on).
My friend could head over to mine at any point, use his keys to get in the car and drive away. He probably won't, however - but I wouldn't object to him doing so. The car is still full of his muddy wellies and LeAnn Rimes CD collection.
Who owns the car currently?
mcgandalf said:
When do I need to start insuring this car I now 'own'?
Roo said:
You own the car as soon as you take ownership of it from your friend. You will need to tax and insure it from that moment onwards.
As Roo highlights - there is no magic. It's when you buy it and exchange funds.Access, having a key, etc, the cars location is irrelevant.
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