Lying in court.

[hedders]

I have often wondered how serious a crime perjury is in civil cases, and how likely you are to get caught telling little white lies and even real whoppers when up in court on a speeding / parking ticket charge for example.

What would happen, if i told them a bunch of mitigating circumstances that later turned out to be a load of rubbish? Would the court know if i was lying about having a girlfreind/wife/house/baby/business for instance? Would they check if they didn't know or would they take my word for it?

Do the prosecution actually bother finding out about you before you go to court or are you just a name and crime number to them?

I have been up in court for having no car tax about 6 years ago and was handed down a £1000 fine, after i paid half of it i went back to the court and gave them a bunch of rubbish about losing my job and being broke and they took my word for it and let me off the rest of the fine.

I imagine that once they have made their decision and you have left the building they don't give you a further thought..

Plus, I am asked to swear on a bible that I am telling the truth, I don't believe in God so i have no moral issues with lying 'under Oath' at all...that has always seemed strange to me.

If the court was to discover after the fact that some one lied to them to get off a speeding ticket or get a reduction in fines etc, would they drag them back into court or is it a case of whats done is done?

[d-man]

As a motorist up before the magistrates court I think you have to be whiter than white. You don't want an example to be made of you, as happened to that guy who got prison time for nominating a foreigner (who wasn't even in the country) as the driver of his car on a NIP.

[gone]

If you are caught lying on oath, you satnd to receive a severe penalty regardless of what court you happen to be in.

Geoffrey Archer lied to the High Court in a civil libel case and got 2 years. He could have got 7 years!

You were foolish to admit your perjury about your appearence in court on this board. There may be people on here who will investigate this!!!!

You have deliberately lied to a court on oath. The consequences may be adverse for you as it will not be too difficult to find out who you are and then investigate your crime!

[Dwight VanDriver]

There is of course the moral aspect.

If a number of people lie about a set of circumstances for the sake of leniency, then when the genuine plea is made, nobody takes any notice of it. You could be the genuine case?

DVD

[Plotloss]

The oath you take doesnt have to be religious.

You can swear an oath on the bible, any of the other recognised religious books or non-denominational...

[gone]

Plotloss said:

The oath you take doesnt have to be religious. You can swear an oath on the bible, any of the other recognised religious books or non-denominational...

The affirmation!
Its a promise.

Break it in a witness box and get found out and you could be in big dodoo!

[Plotloss]

Affirmation, oath, promise whatever.

The point I was making is that being agnostic doesnt mean you wont get charged with contempt or perverting!

[nonegreen]

A very interesting question and one I too have pondered. I certainly dont believe in god and regard the bible as utter drivel. I am a republican and so don't recognise the queen as head of state anyway and so the court is just a kangaroo court as far as I am concerned. The judiciary are hired by politicinas who I did not vote for and neither did most people so in my mind nothing the courts say is valid or legitimate and anything I say is truth simply because I say so. To this end any crime I commit is a political protest and if I were ever to be jailed I would claim to be there for political reasons.

[Zod]

The reason perjury is treated so seriously is that we must be able to rely upon what is said in court by witnesses and defendants. If perjury is treated lightly, then the basis of society is undermined.

Telling the truth in court has nothing to do with loyalty to God or to the Queen, but with doing your duty to the rest of us. Unless you are a truly committed anarchist (in which case, you should piss off and live on a raft in the Atlantic), you have expectations of society and society has expectations of you. One of those expectations is that people will tell the truth in court. This matters, however trivial the matter




>> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:40

[gone]

nonegreen said:

A very interesting question and one I too have pondered. I certainly dont believe in god and regard the bible as utter drivel. I am a republican and so don't recognise the queen as head of state anyway and so the court is just a kangaroo court as far as I am concerned. The judiciary are hired by politicinas who I did not vote for and neither did most people so in my mind nothing the courts say is valid or legitimate and anything I say is truth simply because I say so. To this end any crime I commit is a political protest and if I were ever to be jailed I would claim to be there for political reasons.

I saw someone like you performing at Reading Crown Court a few years ago. Hilarious spectacle.

He told the judge virtually what you have posted above and then turned around when the judge was speaking so his back was to the judge and the proceedings and put his fingers in his ears shouting "La, la, la, la, la, la,........."

Are you by any chance he?
Or indeed Milosovic

Our friend above was still "La, la, la'ing as he was escorted down the steps not having heard his sentence for contempt

>> Edited by gone on Thursday 17th February 15:27

[hedders]

Zod said:

Telling the truth in court has nothing to do with loyalty to God or to the Queen, but with doing yourduty to the rest of us. >> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:23

But in this case (avoiding fines) how am i not doing my duty to the 'rest of us'? They would only use my money to somehow curtail our freedoms further




>> Edited by hedders on Thursday 17th February 15:41

[hedders]

Plotloss said:

Affirmation, oath, promise whatever. The point I was making is that being agnostic doesnt mean you wont get charged with contempt or perverting!

I understand that, but my question is really more about what the consequences might be to your average Joe public if caught telling white lies, and what the chances are of being found out in the first place.

And as far as admitting to lying to a court on a public forum such as this, I haven't take an oath of truth here, so maybe i am lying here, and not there

[gone]

hedders said:

Zod said: Telling the truth in court has nothing to do with loyalty to God or to the Queen, but with doing yourduty to the rest of us. >> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:23 But in this case (avoiding fines) how am i not doing my duty to the 'rest of us'? They would only use my money to somehow curtail our freedoms further :Hehe:

The reasons for your perjury are irrelavent,
The fact you lied is!
Archers reason for lying was also personally financial. Look what happened to him !

[Zod]

I don't know what your real mitigating circumstances were, but people who don't pay their car tax cost the rest of us money, so if found guilty in court, they should pay a fine, both as compensation and to deter them and others from committing the offence.

I don't mean anything personal against you by this. I merely state principle.

>> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:43

[hedders]

Zod said:

I don't know what your real mitigating circumstances were, but people who don't pay their car tax cost the rest of us money, so if found guilty in court, they should pay a fine, both as compensation and to deter them and others from committing the offence. I don't mean anything personal against you by this. I merely state principle. >> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:43

I did pay a fine though..I paid £500 (out of £1000)plus court costs and then went back and appealed it, telling them i had lost my job . I had actually changed my job, rather than lost it That was the Big Lie, so it would be very hard for them to prove it a lie, as i had infact 'lost my job'..I just omitted the tiny snippet of info about how I lost it to start another one. oops


The judge was the same Judge that fined me in the first place but he decided the original fine was unreasonable anyway so he remitted the rest of the fine!

[nonegreen]

Zod said:

The reason perjury is treated so seriously is that we must be able to rely upon what is said in court by witnesses and defendants. If perjury is treated lightly, then the basis of society is undermined. Telling the truth in court has nothing to do with loyalty to God or to the Queen, but with doing your duty to the rest of us. Unless you are a truly committed anarchist (in which case, you should piss off and live on a raft in the Atlantic), you have expectations of society and society has expectations of you. One of those expectations is that people will tell the truth in court. This matters, however trivial the matter >> Edited by Zod on Thursday 17th February 15:40

What you have said is a proposal for a society. It is not in fact our society. In our society the allegiance to God and the Queen are real, not imaginary. The notion that we owe allegiance to each other is a false one. We ought to, but we have no constitution in this country and as such we are compelled to be loyal subjects. The fact that most people live outside this framework while not falling foul of the law is what allows this ludicrous situation to continue. Incidentally I think your proposal is fine and I would be happy to join a society like that.

As for the truth, well I dont believe in the majority of cases it does matter. For the most part courts are dealing with trivia anyway. The civil courts only deal with money in any case and the criminal courts are full of motorists being persecuted and burglars too stupid not to get caught pleading their innocence and wanting 659 other offenses taking into account. The whole damn system is beneath contempt and is only tollerated because it contributes to the economy.

[Wacky Racer]

Don't worry about it........

I was reading the other day, that Prince Charles has planted a few small trees on thousands of acres of land he owns, so it can be deemed "forestry" land, and thus go into a cheaper tax band......

Even the "Royals" are not above the odd fiddle or two, £15,000 for a royal train to go and have a days golfing in Scotland etc, I reckon if you have already paid £500, that's more than enough punishment...

[ca092003]

Lying on oath is just plain wrong. You always have the option of silence, but to suggest that you should lie once you have sworn to tell the truth is fundamentally wrong and I think people should be severely punished for it.

[Mr Whippy]

Bah, people lie about much more... WMD's in Iraq Tony Bliar?
No one is taking him to court or punishing him, he just says sorry!

The whole car tax thing is a lie in a way anyhow...
We already pay fook knows how much to use the roads, and pay stealth taxes here and there... They should just make you pay what you missed and get on with it!

I would morally lie to them, they do the same to us about running this country every single day!

If I'd done something serious then I'd tell the 100% truth, no matter what, even if I was at fault.

But for car tax, oh, give me a break, it's not like murder, rape or robbery is it? I'd say letting horses shit all over the road, when a small dog shite gets a £200 fine is more criminal than not paying road tax

Dave

[hedders]

ca092003 said:

Lying on oath is just plain wrong. You always have the option of silence, but to suggest that you should lie once you have sworn to tell the truth is fundamentally wrong and I think people should be severely punished for it.

I have to confess, I am not sure how the whole 'right to remain silent ' thing works in a civil proceeding, surely it doesn't, as you would just be presumed guilty of all charges?

If I were up on a speeding charge and they were not sure exactly how fast I was going or something, If they asked me to own up, the words:

"I was doing 155mph Your Honour!"

Would not ever leave my lips.

I would say whatever I thought I could get away with!