Friday 18th February 2005

Speeding Fines Overturned

28 Motorists win case over missing signs

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Safespeed brings us news today of a landmark case which was heard in Salisbury Magistrates court. Yesterday 28 motorists had speeding cases dismissed because the temporary speed limit signs had not been displayed properly. An estimated 5,000 more motorists have paid their fine and are entitled to refunds and compensation.

Salisbury Magistrates agreed the speed limit at the A303 at Folly Bottom did not exist in law. However is was heavily enforced with cameras.

Claire Allison, 46, a make-up artist was the 'prime mover' behind the cases coming to court. She said: "I drive a very high mileage and I do my very best to always drive safely. The ticket in the post made me so angry because I knew that I hadn't passed a speed limit sign. Safe Speed put me in touch with Richard Bentley last year and I took hundreds of photographs to support my case. I am so relieved it is all over."

Richard Bentley, the signing expert who supported the defence cases with evidence of the faulty signs said: "The onus is clearly on the highway authority to get it right in the first place. They failed in that duty and members of the public have been massively inconvenienced."

Barry Culshaw, defence solicitor said: "The signing regime at the enforcement sight aptly named folly bottom was fundamentally flawed in a number of material respects additionally a number of my clients had been prosecuted under the wrong part of the legislation. 25 clients facing allegations at Folly Bottom had their summonses dismissed and 2 further defendants were similarly acquitted in relation to speed enforcement at a site at Wylye further westbound on the A303.

Link: www.safespeed.org.uk

[off_again]

And will the SCP do the right thing and contact those potentially 5000 people wrongly convicted? Refunding them their money and putting right what they did wrong?

No, because its all about the money and nothing to do with safety....

Its all starting to become undone....

[Mudflap]

I do believe things are starting (slowly) to move in the right direction towards getting these wretched scameras laid to rest. We can only hope common sense prevails.

>> Edited by Mudflap on Friday 18th February 12:00

[mgv8]

I got my ticket on the A303.
Where and when do these tickets aply for???

[Globulators]

I guess the moral of the story is to ALWAYS check if you really have broken the law FIRST, before paying dearly for someones bright tax raising, illegal idea.

Sounds like 'wasting police time' should be used here..

[xxplod]

My missus was done on the A303 near here. Does anyone know the details of the change in limit. Missus was done for doing 70 mph on a duel carriageway which was apparently a 60 mph limit!

[g_attrill]

One HOPES that the SCP will write to those concerned but after previous mistakes the partnerships have said that people would need to contact them to get the ticket overturned. Bloody cheek if you ask me - let's hope this partnership is more responsible.

Gareth

[Gooby]

Mudflap said:

I do believe things are starting (slowly) to move in the right direction towards getting these wretched scameras laid to rest. We can only hope common sense prevails. >> Edited by Mudflap on Friday 18th February 11:57

I wish I shared your optimism. I dont believe we will ever be free of the scameras. Speeding is now considered as anti-social as drink driving, the spin on the issue is that if you are against cameras you obviously support speeding. I have an awful feeling the govt tactics will be more and more cameras. Road deaths going up? there obviously need to be more cameras. That is thier point of view.

Lets look at other protests that would cost the government money.

Fuel protests, after the protesters were accused of robbing money from the NHS and people would die cos of the selfish fuel protesters, the protest died. RESULT, nothing.

Poll tax. Huge protest, even riots. RESULT, council tax, samething, different name.

You can see the same thing with the cameras. People believe they are unpopular and revenue earning. Government say it is for safety and like bitter medicine, for our own good. Evidence supports theory that cameras do not increase safety and are used as a revenue earner. RESULT, more cameras will make you safer.......

Your only option is to invest in every countermeasure available or drive like Miss Daisy.

[whoateallthepies]

Did anyone see the news last night, where they were talking about policing the hunting ban?

Newsreader speaking to the head of the Association (?) of Chief Police officers (or whatever they are called) and asked how they were going to police the hunting ban when they already had so many priorities like burglars, violent crime and speeding motorists!!!

Nice to see that the media have swallowed all of the hype and put breaking such ridiculously outdated limits alongside crimes which the police either cannot or won't solve!!!

[Crazy of Cookham]

Is it not a crime to prosecute people when speed cameras are not set-up correctly. Before wasting all this time if the Police are goint to take people to court should they not check the facts. This sort of this should not have to go to court. If a mistake was made then the fines should have been automatically withdrawn.

[FlossyThePig]

Gooby said:

Poll tax. Huge protest, even riots. RESULT, council tax, samething, different name.

Off topic - not the same at all. Poll tax was against the person, Council tax against the property.

Problems with the way both have been implemented but this isn't the forum for this subject

Hugh

>> Edited by FlossyThePig on Friday 18th February 12:58

[dcb]

whoateallthepies said:

Did anyone see the news last night, where they were talking about policing the hunting ban? Newsreader speaking to the head of the Association (?) of Chief Police officers (or whatever they are called) and asked how they were going to police the hunting ban when they already had so many priorities like burglars, violent crime and speeding motorists!!! Nice to see that the media have swallowed all of the hype and put breaking such ridiculously outdated limits alongside crimes which the police either cannot or won't solve!!!

I saw this. A very good moment for freedom loving folks everywhere.

UK gets more like Italy all the time. I.e. lots of daft laws that simply aren't enforced because the coppers have got better things to do than enforce petty and daft rules.

I'd be interested to meet the coppers who think it's a better use of police time to be out and about having fun with the horses & dogs, stopping the hunts, rather than locking a few drug addict burglars up for a while, or other mainstream copper related activities.

I know what I'd rather my money was spent on.
Hunting isn't one of them.

[whoateallthepies]

dcb said:

whoateallthepies said: Did anyone see the news last night, where they were talking about policing the hunting ban? Newsreader speaking to the head of the Association (?) of Chief Police officers (or whatever they are called) and asked how they were going to police the hunting ban when they already had so many priorities like burglars, violent crime and speeding motorists!!! Nice to see that the media have swallowed all of the hype and put breaking such ridiculously outdated limits alongside crimes which the police either cannot or won't solve!!! I saw this. A very good moment for freedom loving folks everywhere. UK gets more like Italy all the time. I.e. lots of daft laws that simply aren't enforced because the coppers have got better things to do than enforce petty and daft rules. I'd be interested to meet the coppers who think it's a better use of police time to be out and about having fun with the horses & dogs, stopping the hunts, rather than locking a few drug addict burglars up for a while, or other mainstream copper related activities. I know what I'd rather my money was spent on. Hunting isn't one of them.

By the daft laws bit, I presume you are meaning the speeding laws

It just enraged me when they band the speeding motorist in with the scum and lowlife!!

[off_again]

Crazy of Cookham said:

If a mistake was made then the fines should have been automatically withdrawn.

... and I would go as far to EXPECT that the SCP in question would search through its records and automatically refund all those who fall within the parameters for the illegal nature of the placement and enforcement....

But you know what? They bloody wont. Misserable, lazy, selfish, money-grabbing . This has happened before and each of the SCP's involved have done nothing. I can remember three other cases identical to this!!!

Nice to know that our judicial system of innocent until PROVEN guilty is alive and strong and providing us, the public, with the protection we deserve.....

[hedders]

FlossyThePig said:

Off topic - not the same at all. Poll tax was against the person, Council tax against the property.

Damn, and all this time I have been paying for it myself! You mean my house is liable ?

[porky]

Surely the court should have directed the "Safety Partnership" to contact all those wrongly fined to give them the money back and to remove the points from their licences.

Putting the onus on the drivers is a shameful abdication of responsibility - but whoever said the world is a fair place?!

[MR2Mike]

Gooby said:

Speeding is now considered as anti-social as drink driving, the spin on the issue is that if you are against cameras you obviously support speeding.

That's exactly what the goverment/SCP's would like us belive, but clearly a majority of drivers haven't been brainwashed otherwise you wouldn't see many cars breaking the speed limit.

[cmsapms]

xxplod said:

My missus was done on the A303 near here. Does anyone know the details of the change in limit. Missus was done for doing 70 mph on a duel carriageway which was apparently a 60 mph limit!

mgv8 said:

I got my ticket on the A303. Where and when do these tickets aply for???

There was a bit about this on You and Yours this lunchtime.

This is all it says on the website:

Speed Victory
A set of temporary road works and a mobile speed camera have caught unsuspecting motorists on the A303. Thousands received penalties despite there being no sign to suggest that the normal national speed limit didn't apply. We hear how one driver, Clare Allison, chose to fight the conviction.


but, if you "listen again", there was probably more....I had to pay Shell/gordon for a tankful of weasel piss halfway through the story.

[KINETIC]

Anyone who has fallen foul of this governments ongoing policy to persecute innocent motorists and then proceeds to vote for them in the forthcoming general election deserves a slap in my opinion

[ed22]

Some thoughts..

1. The courts found the limit to be outside of the law
2. By definition fines were illegal
3. The 'Cash Reduction Partnership' therefore cannot hold onto similarly acquired fines..

Now, if commercial companies were allowed to keep £££ that had been proven in court to be billed incorrectly there'd be an upcry! Can you imagine if they'd said 'Well, we might have billed you wrongly...hmmm...tell you what, why don't you look through your paperwork and let us know if you think we've messed up..
they wouldn't have many customers for very long would they?

[Crayven]

The wheels are falling off the scamera pratnerships!