police are behind public to condemn use of PCSO
Discussion
Survey reveals police opposition to CSOs
Press Association
Tuesday February 15, 2005
One in three police officers opposes the government's community support officers scheme, with many comparing the officers to "problem children", according to research published today.
A survey of rank and file police officers found that 33% disapproved of CSOs, with only 39% in favour of them, the survey - carried out for the Police Federation - revealed.
Officers claimed they were aware of CSOs with criminal records, a CSO who took class A drugs, another "suffering from mental health problems", and one who was recruited without an interview, according to the survey.
Some said CSOs "escalated situations", putting themselves and police officers at unnecessary risk by becoming involved in scenarios for which they had insufficient training. In one example, a CSO in the West Midlands rugby-tackled a woman suspected of having stolen goods. In another, a CSO in London apparently dragged a suspect off a bus.
The former home secretary David Blunkett introduced CSOs in 2002, intending them to act as the "eyes and ears" of the police service. As civilian wardens, they are meant to patrol streets and deal with low-level antisocial behaviour. However, some police officers have described them as "Blunkett's bouncers" and "yellow-clad numpties".
The new research, conducted by academic researchers, found a "recurring description" of CSOs was that they were like "problem children". A large majority of the officers surveyed were against CSOs being given more powers, with 83% saying they should have no power of arrest.
All 116 frontline officers who took part in the research believed the government's intention in introducing CSOs had been to get "policing on the cheap". Given the choice, they said they would rather the money used for CSOs was spent recruiting a smaller number of police officers.
Last year, Mr Blunkett announced plans to extend the number of CSOs from the current 4,000 to 25,000, at a cost of £50m.
"Police officers can see the value of community support officers used in non-confrontational roles," Jan Berry, the chair of the Police Federation, said. "However, CSOs have neither the skills, training, equipment or accountability to deal with confrontational situations, and this is reflected in the research.
"Officers also believe that CSOs should wear a distinctive uniform from that of a police officer, which clarifies their role and prevents any confusion among the public. In the absence of a role profile for community support officers, the Police Federation are now proposing their own and believe training should be provided to support that."
A Home Office spokesman said the report was "not a conclusive look at the part that CSOs are playing in reassuring communities and dealing with anti-social behaviour".
"It is based on the views of a limited sample of Police Federation members, and does not cover the reactions of the public to CSOs or incorporate the views of senior police officers," the spokesman added.
Press Association
Tuesday February 15, 2005
One in three police officers opposes the government's community support officers scheme, with many comparing the officers to "problem children", according to research published today.
A survey of rank and file police officers found that 33% disapproved of CSOs, with only 39% in favour of them, the survey - carried out for the Police Federation - revealed.
Officers claimed they were aware of CSOs with criminal records, a CSO who took class A drugs, another "suffering from mental health problems", and one who was recruited without an interview, according to the survey.
Some said CSOs "escalated situations", putting themselves and police officers at unnecessary risk by becoming involved in scenarios for which they had insufficient training. In one example, a CSO in the West Midlands rugby-tackled a woman suspected of having stolen goods. In another, a CSO in London apparently dragged a suspect off a bus.
The former home secretary David Blunkett introduced CSOs in 2002, intending them to act as the "eyes and ears" of the police service. As civilian wardens, they are meant to patrol streets and deal with low-level antisocial behaviour. However, some police officers have described them as "Blunkett's bouncers" and "yellow-clad numpties".
The new research, conducted by academic researchers, found a "recurring description" of CSOs was that they were like "problem children". A large majority of the officers surveyed were against CSOs being given more powers, with 83% saying they should have no power of arrest.
All 116 frontline officers who took part in the research believed the government's intention in introducing CSOs had been to get "policing on the cheap". Given the choice, they said they would rather the money used for CSOs was spent recruiting a smaller number of police officers.
Last year, Mr Blunkett announced plans to extend the number of CSOs from the current 4,000 to 25,000, at a cost of £50m.
"Police officers can see the value of community support officers used in non-confrontational roles," Jan Berry, the chair of the Police Federation, said. "However, CSOs have neither the skills, training, equipment or accountability to deal with confrontational situations, and this is reflected in the research.
"Officers also believe that CSOs should wear a distinctive uniform from that of a police officer, which clarifies their role and prevents any confusion among the public. In the absence of a role profile for community support officers, the Police Federation are now proposing their own and believe training should be provided to support that."
A Home Office spokesman said the report was "not a conclusive look at the part that CSOs are playing in reassuring communities and dealing with anti-social behaviour".
"It is based on the views of a limited sample of Police Federation members, and does not cover the reactions of the public to CSOs or incorporate the views of senior police officers," the spokesman added.
Plotloss said:
a CSO who took class A drugs, another "suffering from mental health problems"
Now I dont know many coppers but the one I do know can tick both these boxes with ease...
Lets hope they no longer take class A drugs..if so, lets further hope they get found out and kicked out...
Ten steps to a career as a CSO..
1) Fail miserably at school and develop an inferiority complex.
2) Leave school at 16 and spend two years pissing off friends and family.
3) At 18 try and join the army.... fail to get in.
4) Spend 3 years working as a shop floor retail assistant (shelf stacker)
5) Get made a shift supervisor and use your new found powers to make everyones life a misery.
6) Get fired from your Supermarket job after most of your co-worker threaten to walk out
7) Try and join the police.... Fail
8) Volunteer for the specials......Fail
9) Consider becoming a traffic warden.... decide the entrance requirements are too stringent.
10) Apply to be a CSO.... get accepted.
1) Fail miserably at school and develop an inferiority complex.
2) Leave school at 16 and spend two years pissing off friends and family.
3) At 18 try and join the army.... fail to get in.
4) Spend 3 years working as a shop floor retail assistant (shelf stacker)
5) Get made a shift supervisor and use your new found powers to make everyones life a misery.
6) Get fired from your Supermarket job after most of your co-worker threaten to walk out
7) Try and join the police.... Fail
8) Volunteer for the specials......Fail
9) Consider becoming a traffic warden.... decide the entrance requirements are too stringent.
10) Apply to be a CSO.... get accepted.
dilbert said:
I could have told you all of that before the CSO's were introduced.
You won't get rid of them now though.
I think anybody could have predicted what they would be like.
Unfortunately, the public wasn't given the choice...
(apart from voting Labour at the last election
) PCSO are cheaper in the long run that police officers, require less training, upkeep, pension etc etc..
Policing on the cheap....
Still...perhaps not voting Labour next time might help..
Press Association said:
A survey of rank and file police officers found that 33% disapproved of CSOs, with only 39% in favour of them, the survey - carried out for the Police Federation - revealed.
Not commenting either way on the use of CSOs, but I find the use of the word "only" in that sentence a bit curious. Shouldn't it have been in front of the 33%, and not the 39%.
I think its fair to say "only" 39% approve. That is the minority. The rest (61%) either disapprove or are (diplomatically) neutral or against. I have confidence in most of the police and am happy that if they use their skill and judgement most will be fair. I do not have the same view of untrained cheapo police or fixed cameras
Streetcop said:
I could have told you all of that before the CSO's were introduced.
You won't get rid of them now though.
I think anybody could have predicted what they would be like.
Unfortunately, the public wasn't given the choice...
(apart from voting Labour at the last election
PCSO are cheaper in the long run that police officers, require less training, upkeep, pension etc etc..
Policing on the cheap....
Still...perhaps not voting Labour next time might help..
To be fair, SC, I don't know if PCSOs are a pre 2001 idea, I don't recall them that far back.
I do agree it's policing on the cheap though. I suspect it will get worse ; not immediately but there will be a slide towards PSCOs replacing coppers ; I think you could end up with a sort of "crime solving" unit - the current Police, and a patrol/response unit which is PSCO.
gone said:
Its another example of government missing the point. If you need more police presence on the streets, have more policemen.
Simple
Why can no politician see obvious answers?
They could see the cost.
Police pay and a pension as opposed to PCSO pay with no pension problems!
Is there a reason someone would want to work as a PSCO rather than a fully trained copper ? Is it just that there are more vacancies for PSCOs, or are there other advantages ?
Theres another problem with these "plastic police". Lack of public respect.
I can tell you now, i have NO respect for them whatsoever or their supposed powers of arrest/detention/whatever and would kick off bigtime if one tried to hold onto me for sure. Id deffo take a swing.
Not so with a REAL copper.
I DO have respect for them even though i dont always agree with everything they get up to, but on the whole yeah, im ok with a real cop stopping me and arresting me if ive been bad.
Get these "cso"'s off our streets and REAL trained Policemen (ok and women) back where we want them, on our streets giving scrotes and other lower life forms a good shoeing.
I can tell you now, i have NO respect for them whatsoever or their supposed powers of arrest/detention/whatever and would kick off bigtime if one tried to hold onto me for sure. Id deffo take a swing.
Not so with a REAL copper.
I DO have respect for them even though i dont always agree with everything they get up to, but on the whole yeah, im ok with a real cop stopping me and arresting me if ive been bad.
Get these "cso"'s off our streets and REAL trained Policemen (ok and women) back where we want them, on our streets giving scrotes and other lower life forms a good shoeing.
The ones I have seen, seem to be all Fat Female and Forty plus, they look more like School dinner ladies than a deterant force. The solution to the problem is not Rocket Science.
Opt out of the Human Rights Act.
Train Parents to take responsibility for their children.
Re-introduce discapline in schools.
put bobbies back on the beat.
Re-introduce Park Keepers.
Develop specialist road policing units and call them
Traffic Police.
Introduce corporal and capital punishment.
Bring back National Service.
Opt out of the Human Rights Act.
Train Parents to take responsibility for their children.
Re-introduce discapline in schools.
put bobbies back on the beat.
Re-introduce Park Keepers.
Develop specialist road policing units and call them
Traffic Police.
Introduce corporal and capital punishment.
Bring back National Service.
Bat21 said:
The ones I have seen, seem to be all Fat Female and Forty plus, they look more like School dinner ladies than a deterant force. The solution to the problem is not Rocket Science.
Opt out of the Human Rights Act.
Train Parents to take responsibility for their children.
Re-introduce discapline in schools.
put bobbies back on the beat.
Re-introduce Park Keepers.
Develop specialist road policing units and call them
Traffic Police.
Introduce corporal and capital punishment.
Bring back National Service.
Erm yeah Ok but park keepers? why?
National service? We already have it its called YTS. Or do you mean military service? In which case say goodbye to the monarchy and the class sytem as pasrt of the deal.
nonegreen said:
.
Erm yeah Ok but park keepers? why?
National service? We already have it its called YTS. Or do you mean military service? In which case say goodbye to the monarchy and the class sytem as pasrt of the deal.[/quote]
Park keepers, because they patrol public parks and used to dish out their own form of discapline to miscreants.
By National Service I mean just that, look it up in a history book.
YTS is not national service but what used to be known as apprenticeship.
You can't say good bye to the class system, it is your F***witted Governments' attempt to level the classes which is at the rout of the current downward spiral.
I would much rather see Monarchy power restored than submit to the current swing towards a European state
under President Bliar
I've said it before & will say it again, in lieu of "proper" police, these guys have definately made my area feel safer - especially late at night.
The scrotes no longer hang around the roads near the station/s now that they are PSCO's wander along a couple of times a night.
In a perfect world they would not be needed but right now they seem to be doing OK & are better there than not at all
The scrotes no longer hang around the roads near the station/s now that they are PSCO's wander along a couple of times a night.
In a perfect world they would not be needed but right now they seem to be doing OK & are better there than not at all
bga said:
I've said it before & will say it again, in lieu of "proper" police, these guys have definately made my area feel safer - especially late at night.
The scrotes no longer hang around the roads near the station/s now that they are PSCO's wander along a couple of times a night.
In a perfect world they would not be needed but right now they seem to be doing OK & are better there than not at all
I'd agree with that. However, the problem is medium/long term.
It's like scameras ; they are a great idea if used properly. But they aren't used properly. PSCOs will gradually take over from "proper coppers" in other areas as well ; Salami tactics.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff