To Indicate or not to Indicate That is the...
Discussion
Question, in a recent post:
There seem to be two schools of thought on this. I assume from Gary's comments that the Roadcraft, IAM etc. view is that you should only indicate if there is someone to indicate to on the basis that you should always know who is there. However, I tend to indicate as part of the mirror, signal, manouvre process, irrespective of whether someone is there, as it makes another part of driving automatic and leaves a little more of my withered grey cells to concentrate on other things. Equally, on the basis that, however good your observation, nobody is perfect and you could have missed something is it not best to bung 'em on anyway?
I tend to work on the basis that when driving you should do as little as possible that requires any co-operation from another driver and so arguably you would very rarely need to indicate as there would rarely be another driver that needed to know what you're doing but that telling them is a courtesy and prevents surprises.
Would BiB generally consider a 'discretionary indicator user' more favourably than an 'auto-flasher'?
Streetcop said:
However, the driver returned to lane 1 following every overtake and only indicated when it would benefit another driver..(ie: me when I got a bit close.)...
There seem to be two schools of thought on this. I assume from Gary's comments that the Roadcraft, IAM etc. view is that you should only indicate if there is someone to indicate to on the basis that you should always know who is there. However, I tend to indicate as part of the mirror, signal, manouvre process, irrespective of whether someone is there, as it makes another part of driving automatic and leaves a little more of my withered grey cells to concentrate on other things. Equally, on the basis that, however good your observation, nobody is perfect and you could have missed something is it not best to bung 'em on anyway?
I tend to work on the basis that when driving you should do as little as possible that requires any co-operation from another driver and so arguably you would very rarely need to indicate as there would rarely be another driver that needed to know what you're doing but that telling them is a courtesy and prevents surprises.
Would BiB generally consider a 'discretionary indicator user' more favourably than an 'auto-flasher'?
Good question. Personally, on a motorway, I will normally only indicate to move right to overtake if there is something reasonably close and / or approaching fast (in fact, if someone's approaching fast I usually leave it until they've gone by).
Returning to inside / middle lane after an overtake? Sometimes indicate (especially if I'm trying to make a point to a middle lane moron) but I ofter think that they should know damn well that I'll be pulling back in after overtaking. But perhaps that's assuming a bit more common sense than is actually the case.
Returning to inside / middle lane after an overtake? Sometimes indicate (especially if I'm trying to make a point to a middle lane moron) but I ofter think that they should know damn well that I'll be pulling back in after overtaking. But perhaps that's assuming a bit more common sense than is actually the case.
miniman said:
Returning to inside / middle lane after an overtake? Sometimes indicate (especially if I'm trying to make a point to a middle lane moron) but I ofter think that they should know damn well that I'll be pulling back in after overtaking. But perhaps that's assuming a bit more common sense than is actually the case.
Used to do exactly the same but with, what seems to be ever more frequent incidence of undertaking, I now bung 'em on then as well!
indicate only if someone will benefit...be it another motorist, pedestrian, horse-rider, whatever...
The problem with indicating every time, is that it's all to easy look , but not SEE, and believe that the indication will somehow protect you.
If the motorway, for example is empty, apart from the truck in lane one that you are gaining on...why indicate? Who is it going to benefit. However, if there is another vehicle behind you, or in lanes 1 or 2, the indications will show what your intention is..thus allowing them time to react...
In addition; I stress that the indicator should be telling people what you INTEND to do, not what you ARE doing...all too often I see people change lanes at the same time that the indicator is applied.
The length/time of an indicator depends on the circumstance, but as a rule of thumb on a motorway; at least 3 clicks prior to a change of direction is the minimum....IMHO
The problem with indicating every time, is that it's all to easy look , but not SEE, and believe that the indication will somehow protect you.
If the motorway, for example is empty, apart from the truck in lane one that you are gaining on...why indicate? Who is it going to benefit. However, if there is another vehicle behind you, or in lanes 1 or 2, the indications will show what your intention is..thus allowing them time to react...
In addition; I stress that the indicator should be telling people what you INTEND to do, not what you ARE doing...all too often I see people change lanes at the same time that the indicator is applied.
The length/time of an indicator depends on the circumstance, but as a rule of thumb on a motorway; at least 3 clicks prior to a change of direction is the minimum....IMHO
Streetcop said:
The length/time of an indicator depends on the circumstance, but as a rule of thumb on a motorway; at least 3 clicks prior to a change of direction is the minimum....IMHO
What are your thoughts on the various cars (e.g. Audi A4 new shape and Smart to name 2) which indicate 3 times for you when you nudge the stalk rather than switching it on? Is this enough? Is that feature giving drivers the wrong impression (i.e that 3 flashes is acceptable)?
Personally I didn't like it much on my A4, mostly because I tend to use the left-right-left or right-left-right as a "thanks" only to end up doing left-left-left right-right-right numpty-numpty-numpty
I always indicate even late at night when on my own.
I just think it's a better habit to get into.
If you are gaining on a truck in front and intend to overtake, at least the driver of the truck will know where you are going in case he needs to take some action you don't know about.
I cannot at all see why it is a problem indicating all the time???
I even put them back on while doing a roundabout! Crazy idea I know but hey!
It's a shame they're only optional extras on ALL Golfs....
I just think it's a better habit to get into.
If you are gaining on a truck in front and intend to overtake, at least the driver of the truck will know where you are going in case he needs to take some action you don't know about.
I cannot at all see why it is a problem indicating all the time???
I even put them back on while doing a roundabout! Crazy idea I know but hey!
It's a shame they're only optional extras on ALL Golfs....
Streetcop said:
indicate only if someone will benefit...be it another motorist, pedestrian, horse-rider, whatever...
Or somebody you'd not spotted...
Streetcop said:
The problem with indicating every time, is that it's all to easy look , but not SEE, and believe that the indication will somehow protect you.
So it's better to look and not see and not indicate than to look and not see and indicate
Streetcop said:
If the motorway, for example is empty, apart from the truck in lane one that you are gaining on...why indicate? Who is it going to benefit.
The truck driver? what if there's something in front of him?
Streetcop said:
However, if there is another vehicle behind you, or in lanes 1 or 2, the indications will show what your intention is..thus allowing them time to react...
agree
Streetcop said:
In addition; I stress that the indicator should be telling people what you INTEND to do, not what you ARE doing...all too often I see people change lanes at the same time that the indicator is applied.
Ok I prob agree with that to some extent but how many times do you see people indicate and then just pull out? That's never good but at least they've given you time to realise you're going to smack into them before they move.
Better to mirror(check it's clear), then signal, then move IMO.
Streetcop said:
indicate only if someone will benefit...be it another motorist, pedestrian, horse-rider, whatever...
And my bike instructor (BiB rider) always said NEVER indicate left on a dual carriageway after an overtake. It could be misinterpreted by somebody waiting to pull out onto the road.
I'm very midful of giving ambiguous signals. For example, if somebody is waiting to turn right across my path I would never turn my headlamps at that point, just in case they misread it as a signal to go.
miniman said:
The length/time of an indicator depends on the circumstance, but as a rule of thumb on a motorway; at least 3 clicks prior to a change of direction is the minimum....IMHO
What are your thoughts on the various cars (e.g. Audi A4 new shape and Smart to name 2) which indicate 3 times for you when you nudge the stalk rather than switching it on? Is this enough? Is that feature giving drivers the wrong impression (i.e that 3 flashes is acceptable)?
Personally I didn't like it much on my A4, mostly because I tend to use the left-right-left or right-left-right as a "thanks" only to end up doing left-left-left right-right-right numpty-numpty-numpty
New Ford cars have had that 3 flash feature for the past year or two, and I quite like it. However, rather than only 3 flashes, I would prefer one or two more.
As for always signalling versus only signalling when someone else might benefit, I wouldn't criticise somebody for always signalling. Better a seemingly unnecessary signal, rather than omitting one that might help somebody.
Incidentally, I sometimes give an early signal of my intention to move to a lane on my left on a DC or motorway, so that the bod behind knows I am aware of his wish to overtake. He might then be less inclined to tailgate me as a means of urging me to move over.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
JoolzB said:
indicate only if someone will benefit...be it another motorist, pedestrian, horse-rider, whatever...
Or somebody you'd not spotted...
Streetcop said:
The problem with indicating every time, is that it's all to easy look , but not SEE, and believe that the indication will somehow protect you.
So it's better to look and not see and not indicate than to look and not see and indicate
You're sounding like Donald Rumsfeld...'there are thing we know we know, there are thing we know; we don't know'..etc etc..
Personaly I don't see the problem of always indicating, irrespective of who is or isn't around to see it. Most of the time you are only ever going to change lanes to overtake, so there must be other traffic around. A flashing amber light in his mirror is much more likely to attract a truck drivers attention than just the front of a car appearing.
Whilst moving into left hand lanes might not always require indicators, if there is a reasonable amount of traffic then I certainly think making your intentions known is a good idea rather than juist drifting accross in front of someone.
I'd far rather people used their indicators all the time rather than never at all.
Whilst moving into left hand lanes might not always require indicators, if there is a reasonable amount of traffic then I certainly think making your intentions known is a good idea rather than juist drifting accross in front of someone.
I'd far rather people used their indicators all the time rather than never at all.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again ...
Too many people indicate merely to remind themselves of what they have just done.
WRT indicating as an 'automatic' action, where in the following Boston Square do you think that lies?
Streaky
PS - getting it wrong can lead to 'Unconscious incontinence'
Too many people indicate merely to remind themselves of what they have just done.
WRT indicating as an 'automatic' action, where in the following Boston Square do you think that lies?
Streaky
PS - getting it wrong can lead to 'Unconscious incontinence'
JoolzB said:
Too many people indicate merely to remind themselves of what they have just done.
Another example of the poor driving standards in this country?
Today's weather reminds me why I gave up motorcycling (mid air on the ice) but I remember attending the star rider silver training scheme, in order to pass my 2 part test (1984).
One thing we were constantly taught :
Ignore people's indicators and you can predict exactly what they are going to do.
I reckomend everyone try it.
The instructor believed that without indicators the world would be a safer place. I think he had something there.
One other point : If I'm in the middle lane of a motorway and I need to move to the outside lane in order to overtake the middle lane hog, my usual method is to accelerate into the fast lane in order to not slow them down. If I indicate then 8 times out of 10, someone will also accelerate to prevent me. I find that the car I am in affects this responce. Most tend to give my 20 year old Cavalier SRi a wide berth, but when in a Pool Car, or hire car I find it worse. One place I worked had a BMW 520 as a pool car and everyone cut you up.
Anyway once in outside lane, I immediately signal left in order to show my intention to move back into middle lane.
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