Speeding but disputing speed reported

[rwdvectra]

I got pulled over on the a2 (4 lane section). I was in a 3.5t sprinter and should of been doing 60mph and was speeding which I don't really have an issue with. The issue I have is the police said I was doing 89mph according to them and their calibrated speedo. The trouble is sprinters are factory limited to 82mph and I wasn't doing that as I was slowing down to come off to the m25 so there was no way I was doing 89 it's not capable. I don't believe they were behind me long enough anyway to be able to monitor my speed. They might have seen 89 on their speedo but I wasn't.

Obviously the punishment for 89 in a 60 is going to be more harsh than doing 78-80 so do I need to go to court and plead not guilty to the offence or plead guilty and dispute the speed?

I'm trying to find something official from Mercedes to say sprinters are limited, so far only finding loads of forums saying it. Does anyone know best place to look?

Cheers

[Some Gump]

Nothing on earth is faster than a white sprinter van. Especially if it's foggy...

[paintman]

Think you'll need to speak to Mercedes yourself. Possible fly in the ointment is that just because a vehicle has a speed limiting device fitted doesn't mean that someone can't modify the vehicle.
I'd also suggest you have the vehicle you were driving tested to establish that it isn't capable of achieving the speed alleged. Not sure how you would do that - possibly a rolling road? - but it's going to have to be someone that the court would accept as an expert witness.

[Drawweight]

I've got a Fiat Ducato which is limited to 64mph.

However AFAIK that limit is applied by the Fiat main agent and can be modified or disabled.

Just because you drive a Sprinter doesn't mean it's factory limited.

[Red Devil]

rwdvectra said:

I got pulled over on the a2 (4 lane section). I was in a 3.5t sprinter and should of been doing 60mph and was speeding which I don't really have an issue with. The issue I have is the police said I was doing 89mph according to them and their calibrated speedo. The trouble is sprinters are factory limited to 82mph and I wasn't doing that as I was slowing down to come off to the m25 so there was no way I was doing 89 it's not capable. I don't believe they were behind me long enough anyway to be able to monitor my speed. They might have seen 89 on their speedo but I wasn't.

Obviously the punishment for 89 in a 60 is going to be more harsh than doing 78-80 so do I need to go to court and plead not guilty to the offence or plead guilty and dispute the speed?

I'm trying to find something official from Mercedes to say sprinters are limited, so far only finding loads of forums saying it. Does anyone know best place to look?

Cheers

if you believe the potential difference in punishment is going to be sufficiently severe you could try asking this person whether the information given in your first paragraph is sufficient to try for a Newton Hearing. The key to success is being able to put enough doubt in the minds of the prosecution/the bench.

[daytona355]

As red devil said, I think you have to measure whether the punishment is going to be bad enough to justify spending money on a defence, because you will need to jump through hoops and pay for testing etc, still to have to rely on the good will of the court. The argument (may have been) should have been had with the cops at the time, to try to reduce the ticket at the time, as once it's done, the cops have the high ground. Good luck with it mate, hope you get the minimum you can

[agtlaw]

rwdvectra said:

I got pulled over on the a2 (4 lane section). I was in a 3.5t sprinter and should of been doing 60mph and was speeding which I don't really have an issue with. The issue I have is the police said I was doing 89mph according to them and their calibrated speedo. The trouble is sprinters are factory limited to 82mph and I wasn't doing that as I was slowing down to come off to the m25 so there was no way I was doing 89 it's not capable. I don't believe they were behind me long enough anyway to be able to monitor my speed. They might have seen 89 on their speedo but I wasn't.

Obviously the punishment for 89 in a 60 is going to be more harsh than doing 78-80 so do I need to go to court and plead not guilty to the offence or plead guilty and dispute the speed?

I'm trying to find something official from Mercedes to say sprinters are limited, so far only finding loads of forums saying it. Does anyone know best place to look?

Cheers

Academic if offered a fixed penalty.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

agtlaw said:

Academic if offered a fixed penalty.

Is a fixed penalty likely at 29 over the limit ? if so then it's a no brainer.

If not I think it would cost far more to win at court, I have yet to drive a Sprinter I couldn't get up to 90+mph.

[TooMany2cvs]

rwdvectra said:

so do I need to go to court and plead not guilty to the offence

Yes.

rwdvectra said:

or plead guilty and dispute the speed?

If you plead guilty, you're pleading guilty to the offence as it's charged.

It's possible you might just get an FPN (unlikely for 29mph over the limit) - in which case, just grab it with both hands.

rwdvectra said:

I'm trying to find something official from Mercedes to say sprinters are limited

How old a Sprinter? The first ones, pre-first facelift (2000?), definitely weren't. IIRC limiters came in with that first facelift and the change to CDI engines. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not been removed or disabled or recalibrated since new...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121910825963 - £60...

It'd be cheaper and easier to just take the penalty than to try to prove that particular vehicle wasn't capable of that speed.

[ikarl]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

agtlaw said:

Academic if offered a fixed penalty.

Is a fixed penalty likely at 29 over the limit ? if so then it's a no brainer.

If not I think it would cost far more to win at court, I have yet to drive a Sprinter I couldn't get up to 90+mph.

I have seen 100+ on a sprinter speedo. Completely unmodified, but reasonably new van. circa 2012

[agtlaw]

TooMany2cvs said:

rwdvectra said:

so do I need to go to court and plead not guilty to the offence

Yes.

rwdvectra said:

or plead guilty and dispute the speed?

If you plead guilty, you're pleading guilty to the offence as it's charged.

Extremely bad idea to go to court if a fixed penalty is offered in the circumstances described by OP. Speed is over the usual threshold for a FP but wait and see.

NG isn't appropriate. Basis of plea. Agree it with the prosecuting authority and/or court. If not, Newton hearing.

The quoted bits are plainly incorrect in the context of OP's case.

[Johnnytheboy]

Some Gump said:

Nothing on earth is faster than a white sprinter van.

God I haven't heard anyone say that in years. So many memories...

[Iva Barchetta]

Whichever way you were travelling,west or east,exit to the M25 is downhill,so beating the limiter,if fitted is quite possible...

[Red Devil]

Has to be heading east. Westbound is only 3 lanes on the approach to the exit slip, not 4 as stated by the OP.

[rwdvectra]

Cheers for the replies, will try and address each point

Drawweight said:

Just because you drive a Sprinter doesn't mean it's factory limited.

The sprinter i have is factory limited

Red Devil said:

if you believe the potential difference in punishment is going to be sufficiently severe you could try asking this person whether the information given in your first paragraph is sufficient to try for a Newton Hearing. The key to success is being able to put enough doubt in the minds of the prosecution/the bench.

.

I think i will get punished more for 29mph over the limit then the 18 i believe it should be. Thanks for the link i will send her a message and get some advice

agtlaw said:

Academic if offered a fixed penalty.

A fixed penalty is going to be a no brainer but i was given a slip saying about prosecution. I thought fixed penalties were given on the roadside. Either way i can't see 29mph over the limit not going to court.

TooMany2cvs said:

How old a Sprinter? The first ones, pre-first facelift (2000?), definitely weren't. IIRC limiters came in with that first facelift and the change to CDI engines. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not been removed or disabled or recalibrated since new...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121910825963 - £60...

It'd be cheaper and easier to just take the penalty than to try to prove that particular vehicle wasn't capable of that speed.

Its a company van that they've owned since new, its 2012 sprinter which is completely standard. Its cheaper if it's just a fine, my worry is i won't just get a fine due to the speed they are claiming and how much over the limit it would be in a 3.5t van

ikarl said:

I have seen 100+ on a sprinter speedo. Completely unmodified, but reasonably new van. circa 2012

Ive had various sprinters with different companies and hire vans from 08-64 plate and each one of them is limited to 83 from the factory. The only ones i know different are the ones limited to 70 we have in the company.

Iva Barchetta said:

Whichever way you were travelling,west or east,exit to the M25 is downhill,so beating the limiter,if fitted is quite possible...

heading west, its 4 lanes then at bluewater on is a slip lane to the m25 then down to 3 with a slip lane to the s/b m25. It's not possible because the van hits a wall and won't go past the limiter

[Iva Barchetta]

Red Devil said:

Has to be heading east. Westbound is only 3 lanes on the approach to the exit slip, not 4 as stated by the OP.

Think you got that wrong way round.

[vsonix]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

I have yet to drive a Sprinter I couldn't get up to 90+mph.

The clue is in the name!

this is kinda making me want a Sprinter though.

Also reminds me of the time I was followed by one of the smaller merc vans, think it was a Vaneo or something, but whatever it was, it was the cooking AMG version. Damn thing was STUCK to me. Obvs public road so wasn't taking the piss but I was really surprised how it kept up with me even in twisty bits.

[agtlaw]

rwdvectra said:

A fixed penalty is going to be a no brainer but i was given a slip saying about prosecution. I thought fixed penalties were given on the roadside. Either way i can't see 29mph over the limit not going to court.

You thought wrong. You were given a NIP or TOR. Neither of which means court proceedings will follow / no FP. You'll hear something in due course. Fixed penalty - pay it. Court proceedings - get legal advice.

[daveinhampshire]

They should limit them to 30mph, having nearly been rammed by one jumping a red light and another tailgating me in traffic this week.

[xstian]

I got pulled for doing over 90 mph on a dual carriageway in a van, a couple of years back. They wrote the ticket out for 89 mph because 90mph was 50% over the speed limit and would involve a court appearance. I just got a fixed penalty, 3 points but can't remember how much the fine was though, £60??