Retailer Dispute over kitchen
Discussion
Can anyone offer an opinion over this before I seek legal advice:
I ordered a kitchen over the telephone, initial delivery date was missed and unable to reach seller on the phone till a few days later, another date was arranged - it arrived missing a few pieces, our old kitchen had already been stripped so joiner started fitting what was there, a few parts were missing, hinges etc and some of the doors were damaged.
Seller promised to rectify, so we perciviered, whenever they sent replacements for the damaged parts they arrived poorly packed and hence damaged again and I ended up with carcasses from 3 different manufacturers with different finishes on (all be it internal faces)
Eventually, I ran out of patience with the seller (after requesting collection and refund) and contacted my credit card company, they raised a charge back with MasterCard which the retailer disputed, eventually after 5 mths of arguing It was settled with me being refunded.
I received a letter from the retailer shortly after stating I must return all items in original, undamaged, unused condition, anything used or damaged will be charged to me. If I don't do this they'll start legal proceedings.
Now, I'm not trying to hang onto the kitchen as a freebie but the units have been cut, modified, drilled etc to be fitted, some of the pieces are damaged as they were delivered that way and I can't guarantee that anything won't be further damaged on removing it. As for being unused., it's been in situ now for about 7 mths and surely we can't be expected to live for that period of time without a kitchen. We didn't even know what the outcome of the MasterCard claim was going to be.
I've written back to the retailer explaining that their return conditions are impossible to meet and have suggested that either they accept the return "as is" or they readjust the invoice total to take into account the damaged items that still haven't been replaced and the fact that we haven't got a fully matching kitchen that we ordered. - this would be preferable to me as I've already paid for the labour to install, it would cost me more to remove again and to be quite honest the thought of going through it all again is daunting.
Unfortunately the retailer has ignored this letter and resent their original demand with final warning stated and threats of incurring further expense.
I ordered a kitchen over the telephone, initial delivery date was missed and unable to reach seller on the phone till a few days later, another date was arranged - it arrived missing a few pieces, our old kitchen had already been stripped so joiner started fitting what was there, a few parts were missing, hinges etc and some of the doors were damaged.
Seller promised to rectify, so we perciviered, whenever they sent replacements for the damaged parts they arrived poorly packed and hence damaged again and I ended up with carcasses from 3 different manufacturers with different finishes on (all be it internal faces)
Eventually, I ran out of patience with the seller (after requesting collection and refund) and contacted my credit card company, they raised a charge back with MasterCard which the retailer disputed, eventually after 5 mths of arguing It was settled with me being refunded.
I received a letter from the retailer shortly after stating I must return all items in original, undamaged, unused condition, anything used or damaged will be charged to me. If I don't do this they'll start legal proceedings.
Now, I'm not trying to hang onto the kitchen as a freebie but the units have been cut, modified, drilled etc to be fitted, some of the pieces are damaged as they were delivered that way and I can't guarantee that anything won't be further damaged on removing it. As for being unused., it's been in situ now for about 7 mths and surely we can't be expected to live for that period of time without a kitchen. We didn't even know what the outcome of the MasterCard claim was going to be.
I've written back to the retailer explaining that their return conditions are impossible to meet and have suggested that either they accept the return "as is" or they readjust the invoice total to take into account the damaged items that still haven't been replaced and the fact that we haven't got a fully matching kitchen that we ordered. - this would be preferable to me as I've already paid for the labour to install, it would cost me more to remove again and to be quite honest the thought of going through it all again is daunting.
Unfortunately the retailer has ignored this letter and resent their original demand with final warning stated and threats of incurring further expense.
Edited by arcticGT on Thursday 7th April 20:19
A cheque for what Jim, the full invoice total or what I'm prepare to offer as a final settlement? Pretty peeved about the whole thing TBH, the whole thing could've been sorted out easily at the beginning if it wasn't for their terrible service. They didn't want to know until MasterCard refunded the payment.
If what you say is PROVABLY true tell them the costs involved in removing the kitchen and repacking it and once you receive a cheque to that value you will consider removing it. Then tell there will be a consequential loss claim for loss of use, inconvenience, and all the time you've spent putting together your complaint, in other words FRO and I'll see you in court with my counter claim!
Edited by elanfan on Thursday 7th April 21:58
If it's for a significant amount of money, I'd recommend getting help from a pro immediately. A letter from a solicitor setting out the particulars of their breach of contract, the loss you've incurred as a result (including removal and reinstalation costs, as mentioned above) and your right to counterclaim on the basis of these sent alongside a without prejudice letter offering them the chance to settle for the amount you're willing to offer might put it all to bed. Once they realise you are represented the threats of legal action etc are likely to subside pretty promptly.
arcticGT said:
I ordered a kitchen over the telephone
Now, I'm not trying to hang onto the kitchen as a freebie
Why over the telephone - were you looking at the lowest bidder?Now, I'm not trying to hang onto the kitchen as a freebie
Edited by arcticGT on Thursday 7th April 20:19
As things stand, you have a free kitchen, albeit one that has fallen below your standards.
Kitchen co are threatening legal action, and if this is more than just posturing, you will need to lawyer up at some stage unless you can settle.
Kitchens can be inexpensive, or very expensive. My advice is to be practical regarding the likely legal costs and look at a settlement that costs you the least.
Not sure if I've understood this correctly but:
You piad on CC
Not happy so CC charge back to kitchen company.
Now when you instigate a charge back the kitchen company would have been given the opportunity to appeal your story, what did they do?
Seems thay are still trying their luck, but a free session with a solicitor would be time well spent.
You also say that you have written to them to offer a compromise and they have just resent their final demand. Chancers???
You piad on CC
Not happy so CC charge back to kitchen company.
Now when you instigate a charge back the kitchen company would have been given the opportunity to appeal your story, what did they do?
Seems thay are still trying their luck, but a free session with a solicitor would be time well spent.
You also say that you have written to them to offer a compromise and they have just resent their final demand. Chancers???
Thanks for the replies guys, it's good to get an outside perspective.
In answer to some of the questions, yes it was reasonably priced but my main factor in choosing this company was their helpfulness and speed of reply in answering any questions before ordering. In terms of it being reasonable in comparison to cost, I would argue most definitely not - I didn't receive what was ordered, it was damaged and not fit for purpose hence it satisfying MasterCard's criteria for claims.
The retailer disputed the chargeback hence it taking so long to resolve and during this process a report was sought from the joiner, it eventually ended up at arbitration with the retailers bank running out of time to continue disputing it.
I have an appt at CAB this afternoon, so currently in the process of printing all old emails etc.
In answer to some of the questions, yes it was reasonably priced but my main factor in choosing this company was their helpfulness and speed of reply in answering any questions before ordering. In terms of it being reasonable in comparison to cost, I would argue most definitely not - I didn't receive what was ordered, it was damaged and not fit for purpose hence it satisfying MasterCard's criteria for claims.
The retailer disputed the chargeback hence it taking so long to resolve and during this process a report was sought from the joiner, it eventually ended up at arbitration with the retailers bank running out of time to continue disputing it.
I have an appt at CAB this afternoon, so currently in the process of printing all old emails etc.
If you are prepared to keep it rather than rip it out and start again then offer them what you think it's worth as a full and final settlement. Then they can either take the offer or take you to court. They will almost certainly take the offer as long as it is a reasonable one. If not, then get your evidence together and wait for the court papers to arrive. As you are an individual and they are a firm you can have the hearing moved to your nearest court and that probably won't be convenient for them
If I was unhappy with it to the extent of clawing back my payment I would not have continued to have it fitted. The fact you continued with installation instead of completely rejecting and now have a working kitchen says it is fit for purpose even if not to the quality you expected. This for me would weaken your position if it went to court.
On the basis of the above a settlement offer would be best for all parties.
Are you now looking to replace the kitchen that's now fitted? if yes offer a lower amount based on fitting it only to have something to live with while you sourced an alternative and the additional labour incurred due to poor quality and service.
On the basis of the above a settlement offer would be best for all parties.
Are you now looking to replace the kitchen that's now fitted? if yes offer a lower amount based on fitting it only to have something to live with while you sourced an alternative and the additional labour incurred due to poor quality and service.
I can see how you might have got to this position but the retailer could argue that "you've decided to keep it but not pay for it and now you're claiming compensation for your inconvenience".
I'm not saying that's how it is, just that it might be seen that way.
I really can't see any winners here, being right isn't always enough to ensure you come out ahead.
I'm not saying that's how it is, just that it might be seen that way.
I really can't see any winners here, being right isn't always enough to ensure you come out ahead.
Thanks guys, CAB were really good actually - maybe I got lucky with the adviser I saw but we both spoke to a consumer specialist on the phone while there and the consensus is I've followed the correct procedures and either allow it to go to small claims and present the facts or preferably make a reasonable offer to the retailer to settle the dispute.
His opinion was that ripping everything back out be a last resort as they're clearly not going to be happy with the condition of it anyway.
I don't want to antagonise the issue by sending a solicitors letter at this stage but if I do receive papers I have a choice of being represented by them at no cost or instructing my own solicitors with a view to making a counter claim.
Hopefully the retailers will realise how ridiculous the whole thing has become.
My last letter was signed for by them the day after the date on their final demand even though I also emailed it to them the day before so I think at this stage I'll send another letter stating I'll disregard their final demand as its crossed in the post and I await a reply to my proposition ?
His opinion was that ripping everything back out be a last resort as they're clearly not going to be happy with the condition of it anyway.
I don't want to antagonise the issue by sending a solicitors letter at this stage but if I do receive papers I have a choice of being represented by them at no cost or instructing my own solicitors with a view to making a counter claim.
Hopefully the retailers will realise how ridiculous the whole thing has become.
My last letter was signed for by them the day after the date on their final demand even though I also emailed it to them the day before so I think at this stage I'll send another letter stating I'll disregard their final demand as its crossed in the post and I await a reply to my proposition ?
Edited by arcticGT on Friday 8th April 22:29
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