Crazy Traffic Lights on roundabouts etc
Discussion
Finally something at least being said about this other ludicrous trend - Excessive use of lights on roundabouts 24/7.
Many examples available showing improved flow / reduced congestion when these bloody things are broken (My own being Histon / A14)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/29/calls-f...
Many examples available showing improved flow / reduced congestion when these bloody things are broken (My own being Histon / A14)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/29/calls-f...
I've seen this too. Not far from here a roundabout was replaced with four way traffic lights to 'future-proof' the junction. The congestion is now at least 100% worse than before, but when the traffic lights fail everybody just treats it like there's an imaginary roundabout and the traffic flows well.
Somebody probably got nominated for a CBE when they designed it so there's no going back now
Somebody probably got nominated for a CBE when they designed it so there's no going back now
About time. If anyone wishes to see some of the most ridiculous sets of lights have a drive around Birmingham. The roundabout at Bromford on the A47 is gridlocked most of the day, purely caused by all the traffic lights on it. If they fail it works fine. Deliberate congestion. Also Ive long said that most sets of traffic lights should be switched off at night. All they do is go through their cycle 24 hours a day. It wouldn't be so bad if they worked on traffic sensors but they don't.
It's because the traffic light manufacturers are owned by the local councillors who have a vested interest in selling lots of units to the highway authorities.
Or it's to deliberately target IT workers who like driving.
Or it's to allow them to put up a red light camera and raise money for the end of year piss up. (ETA beaten to it by the post above)
Or it's to justify their salaries and paid-for lunches.
Or maybe, it's congestion management and it is FAR FAR cheaper to put in signals than to build a huge new roundabout to take the projected traffic growth - and the issues that would bring.
For example, how many lanes would it need? 4? 6? How long would it take for ANY number of lanes to reach capacity? As soon as people know it's a quicker, more capacious route, it will soon snarl up as everyone heads for it. Then, given the size it would need to be, Lane 1 and 2 would be very VERY fast, and would actually negate any of the benefits a roundabout brings. Then you have the Griswold Effect, where people would be stuck in L3/4/5/6 and not be able to get out.
Then how do you build it? The current locations are clearly very heavily used, so would it be better to totally close and rebuild for a year, pushing all traffic on to a diversion route (which will ALWAYS bring compo claims)? Or install signals overnight?
The traffic growth we have (and have had) is unprecedented. Look at residential area parking overcrowding for evidence.
A road local to me conn cuts 2 towns about 3 miles apart. At one end is a roundabout with part time traffic signals. It works and manages flow at busy times and allows the free flow at other times. At the other end is a roundabout with 24/7 lights that is frequently backed up on the island and forces traffic to stop irrespective of flow. It works much better when the lights fail.
When I asked about going to part time I was told that it was dangerous.
When I asked about going to part time I was told that it was dangerous.
OpulentBob said:
Or maybe, it's congestion management and it is FAR FAR cheaper to put in signals than to build a huge new roundabout to take the projected traffic growth - and the issues that would bring.
Or maybe it's about putting traffic lights on existing roundabouts like on the A61 in Chesterfield where two of three roundabouts have traffic lights. Guess which one the traffic flows more freely on - that's right, the one with no traffic lights!AH33 said:
I usually look for a traffic light camera first, look for anyone else waiting and then just go.
As a pedestrian I was clipped by a car that did exactly that, just as I stepped in to the road crossing Haydock roundabout on the M6/A580 junction. Try NOT ignoring the traffic lights.
MKnight702 said:
Well, it depends upon what you see as the objective of these traffic lights. Did you think that the council wanted to improve the traffic flow.......?
In our case? No, the council wanted to create a bus priority scheme at junctions and the only way they could make buses quicker was to artificially slow all of the other traffic with silly bus lane traffic lights that back-up everybody else. It's no fun when you miss your go at the four way lights because a bus was coming and your lane changed to red so that it could overtake you------ and then they stop in the narrow part 100yds down the road and gridlock the junction!But the really ludicrous part of the scheme was the positioning of traffic islands adjacent to bus stops to prevent people from overtaking a stationary bus. Didn't go down well with the Ambulance or Fire Services I'm told.
A roundabout near me has lights on, its the main route out of town and so every morning has a 1-2 mile queue one side of the roundabout and then every evening the same issue on the other side
At one point last year there was a major issue with them and they were off for 6 weeks, traffic flowed wonderfully to the point when they were turned back on there was a petition raised signed by most of the residents to turn them back off.
They are still there, no one can quite work out why
At one point last year there was a major issue with them and they were off for 6 weeks, traffic flowed wonderfully to the point when they were turned back on there was a petition raised signed by most of the residents to turn them back off.
They are still there, no one can quite work out why
OpulentBob said:
Or install signals overnight?
They put a couple of traffic lights to improve access from a sliproad just down from my estate - the whole access road was ONE WAY for FIVE MONTHS. If they take that long, they might as well build a new road tbh. Now even during non peak times you usually have to wait at the lights, when before it was only an issue at peak times.
Having had to endure the Smart Motorway that is the M1 North of Leicester now, I have a niggling thought in the back of my mind that all of this dumbing (read 'slowing') down is laying the foundations for driverless cars.
If it carries on like this, irrespective of anything else, driving will become such a chore that we'll be begging for driverless cars. What an awful thought.
If it carries on like this, irrespective of anything else, driving will become such a chore that we'll be begging for driverless cars. What an awful thought.
I absolutely hate traffic light-controlled roundabouts. Only in very specific conditions do they work, at very specific traffic levels are they more efficient than otherwise a standard roundabout layout. However as a majority of the time traffic levels are not optimum for the traffic lights efficiency, they actually make the junction less efficient.
For example, M42 J2. Late at night, you exit the motorway, very few cars around, as you approach the traffic lights yours are on red and you can see the lights for traffic already on the roundabout are green. You slow further and further, you come to a stop at the line. You can see clearly to the right that there's no traffic. You see the other lights go amber, then red. Eventually, you get an amber and then green. It's so frustrating to be forced to a stop when the Mk1 eyeball can tell you that you're being held up for no reason other than the delay caused by the traffic lights processing your presence then going through their change cycle. It's so frustrating, or the other classic is when the one car on the roundabout is forced to stop for a red light, to let one car enter the roundabout in front, then let the car who had to stop, go. Why? If there were no lights, the roundabout could work in the way that it was designed, traffic already established would have priority and wouldn't have to slow, stop, wait then proceed. The car joining would only have to wait for the other guy to pass, which is quicker than waiting for a set of lights to change, therefore more efficient.
For example, M42 J2. Late at night, you exit the motorway, very few cars around, as you approach the traffic lights yours are on red and you can see the lights for traffic already on the roundabout are green. You slow further and further, you come to a stop at the line. You can see clearly to the right that there's no traffic. You see the other lights go amber, then red. Eventually, you get an amber and then green. It's so frustrating to be forced to a stop when the Mk1 eyeball can tell you that you're being held up for no reason other than the delay caused by the traffic lights processing your presence then going through their change cycle. It's so frustrating, or the other classic is when the one car on the roundabout is forced to stop for a red light, to let one car enter the roundabout in front, then let the car who had to stop, go. Why? If there were no lights, the roundabout could work in the way that it was designed, traffic already established would have priority and wouldn't have to slow, stop, wait then proceed. The car joining would only have to wait for the other guy to pass, which is quicker than waiting for a set of lights to change, therefore more efficient.
Muddle238 said:
I absolutely hate traffic light-controlled roundabouts. Only in very specific conditions do they work, at very specific traffic levels are they more efficient than otherwise a standard roundabout layout. However as a majority of the time traffic levels are not optimum for the traffic lights efficiency, they actually make the junction less efficient.
For example, M42 J2. Late at night, you exit the motorway, very few cars around, as you approach the traffic lights yours are on red and you can see the lights for traffic already on the roundabout are green. You slow further and further, you come to a stop at the line. You can see clearly to the right that there's no traffic. You see the other lights go amber, then red. Eventually, you get an amber and then green. It's so frustrating to be forced to a stop when the Mk1 eyeball can tell you that you're being held up for no reason other than the delay caused by the traffic lights processing your presence then going through their change cycle. It's so frustrating, or the other classic is when the one car on the roundabout is forced to stop for a red light, to let one car enter the roundabout in front, then let the car who had to stop, go. Why? If there were no lights, the roundabout could work in the way that it was designed, traffic already established would have priority and wouldn't have to slow, stop, wait then proceed. The car joining would only have to wait for the other guy to pass, which is quicker than waiting for a set of lights to change, therefore more efficient.
M42 J10 is the same, from the M42 south junction unless you hit them just right you'll get stopped at every single set of lights on the roundabout. For example, M42 J2. Late at night, you exit the motorway, very few cars around, as you approach the traffic lights yours are on red and you can see the lights for traffic already on the roundabout are green. You slow further and further, you come to a stop at the line. You can see clearly to the right that there's no traffic. You see the other lights go amber, then red. Eventually, you get an amber and then green. It's so frustrating to be forced to a stop when the Mk1 eyeball can tell you that you're being held up for no reason other than the delay caused by the traffic lights processing your presence then going through their change cycle. It's so frustrating, or the other classic is when the one car on the roundabout is forced to stop for a red light, to let one car enter the roundabout in front, then let the car who had to stop, go. Why? If there were no lights, the roundabout could work in the way that it was designed, traffic already established would have priority and wouldn't have to slow, stop, wait then proceed. The car joining would only have to wait for the other guy to pass, which is quicker than waiting for a set of lights to change, therefore more efficient.
About 17 years ago they had one part time set of lights on the roundabout, however traffic used to be much worse due to cautious Carls nevously negioating the roundabout and the traffic would backup down the M42. The lights have actually improved the traffic off the M42! Still no reason for them to be on at off peak times.
IanCress said:
As a pedestrian I was clipped by a car that did exactly that, just as I stepped in to the road crossing Haydock roundabout on the M6/A580 junction.
Try NOT ignoring the traffic lights.
Part of my looking about for anyone else includes pedestrians.Try NOT ignoring the traffic lights.
You should see what it's like up here. 15 sec "intergreen" period where everyone is stopped between each cycle, including pedestrians. Why should I wait for that if there's no one else around?
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