Uncomfortable with Executor - am I being silly ??

[pheasant]

Uncomfortable with Executor - am I being silly ?? My wife's elderly aunt died recently, naming 2 executors, my wife and a friend.
'Friend Executor' had been friend and cleaner to aunt for a few years.
We know that aunt wished all her money to go to charity, we have no problem with that as we need no money, nor indeed do any of the other nieces and nephews, and saves any squabbling.
However 'Friend Exector' seems to have difficulty in coming up with the will (says it's in her house somewhere) she wrote said will for aunt. She also wants to handle the probate by herself without solicitor (again, her choice).
Myself and 'Wife Executor' are happy to let 'Friend Executor' do all these hours of work but still cant dismiss the uncomfortable feeling.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Just get wife to tell her that as she's also an executor, she feels duty bound to be involved to ensure aunt's wishes are met.

[Jefferson Steelflex]

Of course you are not being silly.

Although I hate assuming the worst in people, it is only right that you are a tad careful as it could be a substantial amount of money. Give her the benefit of the doubt, but make it clear that you wish to be co-executors, and you could even mention that you know about the aunt's wish to give the money to charity. Might just speed things along.

[Rude-boy]

100% need to have a solicitor to administer on behalf of executors to protect your wife if there is even a hint of concern about if they might accidentally incorrectly administer the estate or else your wife could be liable.

At the end of the day it means a little money for the lawyers and a little less for the charities but i would suggest that your wife needs to protect her position, especially as it sounds as though you guys are solvent (people who sue don't care who got it wrong, only who can be joined in and has the money to pay...)

Add to this that the most irascible and difficult beneficiaries, who want to see almost everything, are charities.

[pheasant]

Thanks so far, we have expressed our wish to help in any way poss, and also requested copies of the will to be present for all those attending the funeral. The proceeds we believe are going to just one charity and is a reasonable sum, over £1/4 million although under inheritance tax limits. I would have thought it would have been in aunts best interest at the time to have let that charity indulge in its free will service ??

[ColinM50]

If friend is being economical with the truth about not knowing where the will is, remind her that if no will is found within 28 days your aunt will be deemed to have died intestate and the Intestacy rules apply. Which to briefly summarise it are aunt's husband and children are first in line, then her children's children and if none of these are alive then everything goes to the Crown.

Point out to her that in the absence of a will she gets nothing nor does the charity. Intestacy rules apply and it's not up to you/your wife or anyone else to distribute her estate as they see fit. Rules is rules. Suggest that you all have a search for the will together or that nice Mr Osborne's going to get the lot and he'll then be able to support some more poor immigrants. Betcha she suddenly finds it.

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...

[Steve H]

Aren't executors generally named in the will?

[4x4Tyke]

pheasant said:

Thanks so far, we have expressed our wish to help in any way poss, and also requested copies of the will to be present for all those attending the funeral.

I suggest you express this as "having a legal duty/responsibility" rather than an expression to help as possible.

[Slidingpillar]

Steve H said:

Aren't executors generally named in the will?

Yes (or they are in mine).

[Jasandjules]

4x4Tyke said:

I suggest you express this as "having a legal duty/responsibility" rather than an expression to help as possible.

Indeed. And personal liability to the beneficiaries so you want to make sure everything is done exactly as required.

[PhilboSE]

If there are charities involved as beneficiaries then the executors need to be utterly anal about the bookkeeping in administering the estate. It's usually advisable to open a new bank account exclusively for this purpose.

When charities are notified that they are beneficiaries they take extremelevels of interest in the financial management of the estate.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

pheasant said:

The proceeds we believe are going to just one charity and is a reasonable sum, over £1/4 million although under inheritance tax limits.

I think bequests to charities are IHT exempt.

[RichB]

Jasandjules said:

4x4Tyke said:

I suggest you express this as "having a legal duty/responsibility" rather than an expression to help as possible.

Indeed. And personal liability to the beneficiaries so you want to make sure everything is done exactly as required.

Firstly you do not need a solicitor to get probate that said both executors must be involved when you apply. If your wife does not want to be an executor she must state this as a fact, it's called "rights reserved". I suggest that your wife immediately explains to the other executor that she must see the will and that then she will decide if she wants to be involved in executing the wishes of her aunt. There is a defined process, it's not something you make up according to how you feel about it.

[Red Devil]

Jasandjules said:

4x4Tyke said:

I suggest you express this as "having a legal duty/responsibility" rather than an expression to help as possible.

Indeed. And personal liability to the beneficiaries so you want to make sure everything is done exactly as required.

Not to mention that an executor's liability is unlimited. In an extreme case you could be forced to sell your house.

RichB said:

Firstly you do not need a solicitor to get probate that said both executors must be involved when you apply. If your wife does not want to be an executor she must state this as a fact, it's called "rights reserved". I suggest that your wife immediately explains to the other executor that she must see the will and that then she will decide if she wants to be involved in executing the wishes of her aunt. There is a defined process, it's not something you make up according to how you feel about it.

If someone does not want to act there are actually two options.

The first is the one you mention. The correct term though is powers reserved (not rights). This means what it says. The executor retains the right to step back in subsequently and prove the will. This will result in a double grant.

The other option is to renounce. This means you bow out altogether and it is as if you were never appointed. However the latter course is not available if you have intermeddled. That means doing anything (other than arranging the funeral) which an executor might do. This can be as little as notifying a bank of the death.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/con...

pheasant said:

However 'Friend Exector' seems to have difficulty in coming up with the will (says it's in her house somewhere) she wrote said will for aunt. She also wants to handle the probate by herself without solicitor (again, her choice).
Myself and 'Wife Executor' are happy to let 'Friend Executor' do all these hours of work but still cant dismiss the uncomfortable feeling.

Taken together these three points would make me extremely suspicious. The without solicitor bit is not per se an issue: it depends on the complexity and value of the estate (is it below the IHT threshold?). Otoh has this 'Friend' actively promoted the idea to your wife that she need not/should not get involved in the administration?

If your wife is a named executor in the will she must take immediate steps to steps to protect her position. Make sure that any verbal communication is confirmed in writing so that there is no misunderstanding or opportunity for a subsequent denial.

[RichB]

Red Devil said:

The correct term though is powers reserved (not rights)...

Thanks for the correction. It was a couple of years ago that I did this together with my brother who lives in Dubai and hence was powers reserved.

[konark]

The executors are named in the will.

The will is 'somewhere' in the friend/cleaner's house.

Have you seen a copy of the will? If not how do you know who the executors are and that the cats' home gets the lot?

Call me suspicious but at best the home-made will is probably invalid or seriously flawed.

[JonV8V]

ColinM50 said:

If friend is being economical with the truth about not knowing where the will is, remind her that if no will is found within 28 days your aunt will be deemed to have died intestate and the Intestacy rules apply. Which to briefly summarise it are aunt's husband and children are first in line, then her children's children and if none of these are alive then everything goes to the Crown.

Point out to her that in the absence of a will she gets nothing nor does the charity. Intestacy rules apply and it's not up to you/your wife or anyone else to distribute her estate as they see fit. Rules is rules. Suggest that you all have a search for the will together or that nice Mr Osborne's going to get the lot and he'll then be able to support some more poor immigrants. Betcha she suddenly finds it.

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...

Not quite, your wife would inherit the lot unless there is a closer relative.

I'd contest the cleaner anyway, use a lawyer who will be paid for from the estate, even if you inherit the money, gift it to the charity.if you believe that was the intention and wish to honour the spirit of her intentions which is better than the cleaner helping herself.

[pheasant]

Thanks all for your comments so far, but I am putting my input on hold at the mo. Her own doctor will not issue the death certificate.

[4x4Tyke]

pheasant said:

Thanks all for your comments so far, but I am putting my input on hold at the mo. Her own doctor will not issue the death certificate.

I think all the more reason to get a specialist solicitor involved and not back off.

[Marcellus]

pheasant said:

Thanks all for your comments so far, but I am putting my input on hold at the mo. Her own doctor will not issue the death certificate.

That's not uncommon though is it?

Aren't there specific rules as to when the deceased Dr can and can't issue a death certificate?? such as they have to have seen the deceased within the 24hour period before their death?

if they didn't it need to be referred to the coroner then you're into interim death certs etc (not that it actually makes any difference to the execution of the will)