Unbarred yellows.
Discussion
Quick update for you. I parked in a laybye to drop off some papers at court. Got a ticket from the revenue collectors. Now this laybar has unbarred yellows (the bar was never painted) and the double yellows become a single dotted line (what's that all about). Anyway I contested it and then appealed it. The adjudicator found against me saying the council meant well. I asked for another opinion and enclosed a letter from the council from awhile back saying unbarred yellows arent enforcible, as well as the proper dimensions for the end bars according to statute plus some other stuff.
Guess what, the independant adjudicator wouldn't reopen the matter saying I should have known text and verse the first time around.
So, quote text and verse the first time
I can pay the £60 and have the satisfaction they are still working hard to earn it but I'm surprised they can get away with this. They know the lines haven't been painted in accordance with the regs. Nottingham City Council get, well you get my drift!
Boosted.
Guess what, the independant adjudicator wouldn't reopen the matter saying I should have known text and verse the first time around.
So, quote text and verse the first time
I can pay the £60 and have the satisfaction they are still working hard to earn it but I'm surprised they can get away with this. They know the lines haven't been painted in accordance with the regs. Nottingham City Council get, well you get my drift! Boosted.
parrot of doom said:
European Court of Human Rights for you!
Bit late for that, I've just thrown the Bill of Rights Act 1689 at them but I don't suppose that will stop them. It will be interesting to see what they say though. If they dismiss it they have to dismiss metric weights and metric measures at the same time.
"that all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void".
It's all about revenue, you can't park anywhere for free in the city. Every space has it's price. Still, I'm getting value for money
Boosted.
cortinaman said:
take pics of the unbarred lines (if you havnt already),rip up the ticket,tell them to stick the fine up their arse and that you'll see them in court.
I don't think the courts get involved which is why it seems unjust. The penalty does get referred to a court but by then I think it becomes a 'collection' matter for the bailiffs. As far as I know I don't get the option of a hearing.
Boosted.
You have my sympathy Boosted as the signing does not conform to the TSGD regs and therefore the restriction unenforceable.
Had you been able to take this matter through a Magistrates Court then if the Mags disagreed you have further avenues of appeal.
But Council No waiting enforcement has been "decriminalised" and appeal stops at Adjudicator, with next stop County Court, as you say, for non payment.
Consider writing to your MP with the full facts to see what his views are on the miscarriage of justice.
DVD
Had you been able to take this matter through a Magistrates Court then if the Mags disagreed you have further avenues of appeal.
But Council No waiting enforcement has been "decriminalised" and appeal stops at Adjudicator, with next stop County Court, as you say, for non payment.
Consider writing to your MP with the full facts to see what his views are on the miscarriage of justice.
DVD
Cheers DWD. Yep, I do think they pulled a fast one so my only option now is to pay. I did everything by the book, sent in photo's and sketch plans. Even showed where the lines were broken with 4 foot square patching. You would also think they would paint the properly in the first place! It just galls me to think of all the revenue they're pulling in at the motorists expence.
If I can do something about it I will. I shall contact the MP as that may get the council some deserved attention.
If I can do something about it I will. I shall contact the MP as that may get the council some deserved attention.
Did you see the lines were unbarred before you parked there and think "oh, theylre unenforceable" - I can park here.
OR did you think "I'll only be a swift minute dropping these docs off, double yellow, bugger, nowhere to park, shouldn't get a ticket if I'm quick, no tax-wardens in sight, lets go for it".
- IF the former then carry on, seems they are being awkward baskets.
- IF the latter then pay the bl00dy ticket as you knew it was supposed to be a yellow line. Bit like people blatantly speeding and then complaining.
OR did you think "I'll only be a swift minute dropping these docs off, double yellow, bugger, nowhere to park, shouldn't get a ticket if I'm quick, no tax-wardens in sight, lets go for it".
- IF the former then carry on, seems they are being awkward baskets.
- IF the latter then pay the bl00dy ticket as you knew it was supposed to be a yellow line. Bit like people blatantly speeding and then complaining.
targarama said:
Did you see the lines were unbarred before you parked there and think "oh, theylre unenforceable" - I can park here.
OR did you think "I'll only be a swift minute dropping these docs off, double yellow, bugger, nowhere to park, shouldn't get a ticket if I'm quick, no tax-wardens in sight, lets go for it".
- IF the former then carry on, seems they are being awkward baskets.
- IF the latter then pay the bl00dy ticket as you knew it was supposed to be a yellow line. Bit like people blatantly speeding and then complaining.
Don't agree - whatever he thought when he parked, he wasn't ac6tually breaking the law, why should he pay a fine? People who are speeding are breaking a law, on the other hand.
deeen said:
Did you see the lines were unbarred before you parked there and think "oh, theylre unenforceable" - I can park here.
OR did you think "I'll only be a swift minute dropping these docs off, double yellow, bugger, nowhere to park, shouldn't get a ticket if I'm quick, no tax-wardens in sight, lets go for it".
- IF the former then carry on, seems they are being awkward baskets.
- IF the latter then pay the bl00dy ticket as you knew it was supposed to be a yellow line. Bit like people blatantly speeding and then complaining.
Don't agree - whatever he thought when he parked, he wasn't ac6tually breaking the law, why should he pay a fine? People who are speeding are breaking a law, on the other hand.
But there are those who know they are doing 40 in a 30 limit and those who genuinely didn't realise it was a 30 limit for fair reasons.
I'm all for playing them at their own game and getting off if appropriate.
Targarama,
It's a proper laybye presumably as such it was intended to be for short term parking, like when dropping stuff off etc. Years ago they put the lines down but didn't do them correctly. They have never bothered to finish them. I wrote to the council who replied saying they weren't enforcible and that was a few years ago! Seems like nowadays they want all the revenue regardless of the correct signage or statute. I'm going to pay but they shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod over all and sundry and I bloody object. This would be resolved properly in a court but that rights been removed as far as I can tell.
Boosted.
It's a proper laybye presumably as such it was intended to be for short term parking, like when dropping stuff off etc. Years ago they put the lines down but didn't do them correctly. They have never bothered to finish them. I wrote to the council who replied saying they weren't enforcible and that was a few years ago! Seems like nowadays they want all the revenue regardless of the correct signage or statute. I'm going to pay but they shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod over all and sundry and I bloody object. This would be resolved properly in a court but that rights been removed as far as I can tell.
Boosted.
boosted ls1 said:
Targarama,
It's a proper laybye presumably as such it was intended to be for short term parking, like when dropping stuff off etc. Years ago they put the lines down but didn't do them correctly. They have never bothered to finish them. I wrote to the council who replied saying they weren't enforcible and that was a few years ago! Seems like nowadays they want all the revenue regardless of the correct signage or statute. I'm going to pay but they shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod over all and sundry and I bloody object. This would be resolved properly in a court but that rights been removed as far as I can tell.
Boosted.
In that case go get 'em. Isn't there a higher-level court you can appeal to? - I'm not knowledgeable on this stuff sorry.
Just because they "the independent (what ever that means - and if it isn't a court of law it don't mean diddly) reviewers" doesn't mean to say that they are right or can't be overruled by a court. Keep writing AND call them asking to speak to the managing director or most senior board member (assuming a company) and point out their mistake.
They have two options... drop the case or take you to court (they won't want to do the latter as it sets a president)
You can improve your chances by making a complaint against them, contacting your MP, writing to the press. You could also pay the fine then take them to the small claims court to get it paid back.
I guess, in theory, you could park in the same space, get a ticket, appeal using 'correct evidence' (their version), hope appeal is granted and then point out the error of their ways.
MC
>> Edited by MajorClanger on Friday 11th March 14:11
They have two options... drop the case or take you to court (they won't want to do the latter as it sets a president)
You can improve your chances by making a complaint against them, contacting your MP, writing to the press. You could also pay the fine then take them to the small claims court to get it paid back.
I guess, in theory, you could park in the same space, get a ticket, appeal using 'correct evidence' (their version), hope appeal is granted and then point out the error of their ways.
MC
>> Edited by MajorClanger on Friday 11th March 14:11
boosted ls1 said:
take pics of the unbarred lines (if you havnt already),rip up the ticket,tell them to stick the fine up their arse and that you'll see them in court.
I don't think the courts get involved which is why it seems unjust. The penalty does get referred to a court but by then I think it becomes a 'collection' matter for the bailiffs. As far as I know I don't get the option of a hearing.
Boosted.
If it comes to this, can't you contest it on the grounds that they have no right to demand the money from you in the first place?
Reminds me of the 'confessions of a parking attendant' dispatches programme, where somebody was sent a CC failure to pay ticket, and he didn't even own the car or drive it. Because he failed to follow their appeal procedures, they forced him to pay it. Don't know the outcome, but I'd personally shove my car up their rusty sheriff's badge.
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