Small Claims - Preparing for hearing

[BMWBen]

I'm currently in dispute with a major retailer over a product they sold me that caused major damage to my vehicle (see, relevant to PH!) and I'm a bit lost as to what I need to do next.

I filed a claim using moneyclaimonline, and they decided to submit a defence, so I was sent a directions questionnaire which basically said "are you ok with this going on the small claims track". The next notice I got from the court was that a hearing date had been set for December, but that there was going to be a preliminary hearing next week, along with some instructions about the deadline for submitting the documents I'm going to rely on in court by some time in October.

I understand that I need to be making every effort to resolve the issues before it goes to a hearing, but it's not clear how I have to do that. When I submitted my claim, you don't get much opportunity for making all your facts and evidence available, and I've got witness statements, receipts, photos that the defence solicitors haven't seen yet.

So my question is, what do I have to do before a preliminary hearing? I'm assuming at the moment that at that hearing the judge will set the directions for us to follow to get to a resolution, and that that's when I should be revealing everything that I'm going to be relying on. I have evidence that either falsifies or satisfies all the points and claims in the defence that was submitted, and I really need to be able to use it so I don't want to screw up!

[bonesX]

You'll be notified along with detailed instructions where you'll prepare your full detailed statement, sending copies to the court and other parties (keeping originals yourself)

Magistrates usually decide in favour of the consumer

[george123]

BMWBen said:

I'm currently in dispute with a major retailer over a product they sold me that caused major damage to my vehicle (see, relevant to PH!) and I'm a bit lost as to what I need to do next.

I filed a claim using moneyclaimonline, and they decided to submit a defence, so I was sent a directions questionnaire which basically said "are you ok with this going on the small claims track". The next notice I got from the court was that a hearing date had been set for December, but that there was going to be a preliminary hearing next week, along with some instructions about the deadline for submitting the documents I'm going to rely on in court by some time in October.

I understand that I need to be making every effort to resolve the issues before it goes to a hearing, but it's not clear how I have to do that. When I submitted my claim, you don't get much opportunity for making all your facts and evidence available, and I've got witness statements, receipts, photos that the defence solicitors haven't seen yet.

So my question is, what do I have to do before a preliminary hearing? I'm assuming at the moment that at that hearing the judge will set the directions for us to follow to get to a resolution, and that that's when I should be revealing everything that I'm going to be relying on. I have evidence that either falsifies or satisfies all the points and claims in the defence that was submitted, and I really need to be able to use it so I don't want to screw up!

A preliminary hearing for small claims? Never heard of that in my experience so can't help. I'd ring the court & ask what the expectation is if you've received no specific guidance via the post . Personally, I would have prepared my argument & paperwork as if it were the actual hearing - you never know.

Ive done this a couple of times now, my experience has been:
- the day in court is very informal, don't think its going to be anything else - you're a layman not a lawyer and the judge will respect this You're not expected to be a lawyer so no pseudo lawyer speak - it'll pee the judge off if you do, just tell it like it is.
- Be calm and unemotional, just state the facts and avoid getting into a slagging match with the defendant even if he's talking crap. Take the higher ground.
- bring copies of everything you've submitted to court and also to the retailer & get it in order incase you have to refer to something. If you have receipts for recorded/signed for delivery of documents to the retailer then bring these also incase they try to claim nothing had been received. I believe in the court's view if its been sent recorded then its as good as been received.

As for doing all you can to resolve the issue, in one case and prior to the hearing I offered a deal to the defendant to settle on paying me a slightly lower amount than the claim. He didn't reply and I told the judge I tried all I could not to bring the case to court etc.

In your case, an example would be that you got a couple of quotes to repair the damage caused of which you offered the retailer to pay for the cheaper of the 2 and settle out of court.

[BMWBen]

Is there a form you have to submit with your documentation? All the online stuff relating to this process seems to be from the dark ages and it's hard to work out what an earth is required.

[CRA1G]

bonesX said:

Magistrates usually decide in favour of the consumer

Magistrates don't favour anyone.... they assess which ever party is right or wrong by law with the claim or defence.... I've always found them very fair and reasonable and you certainly can't pull the wool over there eyes....

[BMWBen]

george123 said:

BMWBen said:

I'm currently in dispute with a major retailer over a product they sold me that caused major damage to my vehicle (see, relevant to PH!) and I'm a bit lost as to what I need to do next.

I filed a claim using moneyclaimonline, and they decided to submit a defence, so I was sent a directions questionnaire which basically said "are you ok with this going on the small claims track". The next notice I got from the court was that a hearing date had been set for December, but that there was going to be a preliminary hearing next week, along with some instructions about the deadline for submitting the documents I'm going to rely on in court by some time in October.

I understand that I need to be making every effort to resolve the issues before it goes to a hearing, but it's not clear how I have to do that. When I submitted my claim, you don't get much opportunity for making all your facts and evidence available, and I've got witness statements, receipts, photos that the defence solicitors haven't seen yet.

So my question is, what do I have to do before a preliminary hearing? I'm assuming at the moment that at that hearing the judge will set the directions for us to follow to get to a resolution, and that that's when I should be revealing everything that I'm going to be relying on. I have evidence that either falsifies or satisfies all the points and claims in the defence that was submitted, and I really need to be able to use it so I don't want to screw up!

A preliminary hearing for small claims? Never heard of that in my experience so can't help. I'd ring the court & ask what the expectation is if you've received no specific guidance via the post . Personally, I would have prepared my argument & paperwork as if it were the actual hearing - you never know.

Ive done this a couple of times now, my experience has been:
- the day in court is very informal, don't think its going to be anything else - you're a layman not a lawyer and the judge will respect this You're not expected to be a lawyer so no pseudo lawyer speak - it'll pee the judge off if you do, just tell it like it is.
- Be calm and unemotional, just state the facts and avoid getting into a slagging match with the defendant even if he's talking crap. Take the higher ground.
- bring copies of everything you've submitted to court and also to the retailer & get it in order incase you have to refer to something. If you have receipts for recorded/signed for delivery of documents to the retailer then bring these also incase they try to claim nothing had been received. I believe in the court's view if its been sent recorded then its as good as been received.

As for doing all you can to resolve the issue, in one case and prior to the hearing I offered a deal to the defendant to settle on paying me a slightly lower amount than the claim. He didn't reply and I told the judge I tried all I could not to bring the case to court etc.

In your case, an example would be that you got a couple of quotes to repair the damage caused of which you offered the retailer to pay for the cheaper of the 2 and settle out of court.

I think the preliminary hearing could be because I've not offered any proof that the purchase actually took place, and the defense is that it didn't. I guess the judge would be looking to clear that one up pretty quickly! The reality is they have the data from their point of sale systems to prove that it did and are choosing not to look. Since I filed, I've located said proof of purchase. I originally thought it was destroyed in the incident I'm claiming for.

I'll probably serve all my evidence as soon as I can - I' m just not sure if I need to do anything other than send the defence laywers and the court copies with my case number on them...

[george123]

BMWBen said:

I think the preliminary hearing could be because I've not offered any proof that the purchase actually took place, and the defense is that it didn't. I guess the judge would be looking to clear that one up pretty quickly! The reality is they have the data from their point of sale systems to prove that it did and are choosing not to look. Since I filed, I've located said proof of purchase. I originally thought it was destroyed in the incident I'm claiming for.

I'll probably serve all my evidence as soon as I can - I' m just not sure if I need to do anything other than send the defence laywers and the court copies with my case number on them...

there is a process to follow - from memory ( best to google it on which? or moneysavingexpert):
1.You file the claim with the court , they issue a file number.
2.You then have 14 days to send the defendant the detailed particulars of the claim
3.Defendant has 14 days to respond - yes they'll defend it or not
4.If they choose to defend, court will write asking both parties to fill in 'directions questionaire - basically all the info that they'll present/rely on in court
5.This has to be sent to the other party & the court within a certain timeframe
6. date issued for the the hearing

Have you done 4 & 5 ?

[julian64]

CRA1G said:

Magistrates don't favour anyone.... they assess which ever party is right or wrong by law with the claim or defence.... I've always found them very fair and reasonable and you certainly can't pull the wool over there eyes....

errrummm. You do know where magistrates come from?

[BMWBen]

george123 said:

BMWBen said:

I think the preliminary hearing could be because I've not offered any proof that the purchase actually took place, and the defense is that it didn't. I guess the judge would be looking to clear that one up pretty quickly! The reality is they have the data from their point of sale systems to prove that it did and are choosing not to look. Since I filed, I've located said proof of purchase. I originally thought it was destroyed in the incident I'm claiming for.

I'll probably serve all my evidence as soon as I can - I' m just not sure if I need to do anything other than send the defence laywers and the court copies with my case number on them...

there is a process to follow - from memory ( best to google it on which? or moneysavingexpert):
1.You file the claim with the court , they issue a file number.
2.You then have 14 days to send the defendant the detailed particulars of the claim
3.Defendant has 14 days to respond - yes they'll defend it or not
4.If they choose to defend, court will write asking both parties to fill in 'directions questionaire - basically all the info that they'll present/rely on in court
5.This has to be sent to the other party & the court within a certain timeframe
6. date issued for the the hearing

Have you done 4 & 5 ?

I got sent form N180 by the court, the small claims track directions questionnaire, which I returned. It didn't say anything about submitted or serving evidence, it just asked where I wanted the hearing, how many witnesses I wanted to give evidence and whether I agreed to the small claims track. That was it.


it's here:
https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/N180.pdf

[george123]

BMWBen said:

I got sent form N180 by the court, the small claims track directions questionnaire, which I returned. It didn't say anything about submitted or serving evidence, it just asked where I wanted the hearing, how many witnesses I wanted to give evidence and whether I agreed to the small claims track. That was it.


it's here:
https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/N180.pdf

I remember I was asked to documents to be relied on in court - basically an outline of events plus all the supporting paperwork - copy to court, copy to defendant. This gives all parties a chance to prepare in advance of the hearing.

Maybe since you haven't got a confirmed hearing date yet, a request will follow for this once its set? Sorry , I cant remember the exact line time of each step.

[BMWBen]

george123 said:

BMWBen said:

I got sent form N180 by the court, the small claims track directions questionnaire, which I returned. It didn't say anything about submitted or serving evidence, it just asked where I wanted the hearing, how many witnesses I wanted to give evidence and whether I agreed to the small claims track. That was it.


it's here:
https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/N180.pdf

I remember I was asked to documents to be relied on in court - basically an outline of events plus all the supporting paperwork - copy to court, copy to defendant. This gives all parties a chance to prepare in advance of the hearing.

Maybe since you haven't got a confirmed hearing date yet, a request will follow for this once its set? Sorry , I cant remember the exact line time of each step.

The document I got which told me about this preliminary hearing also set the date for the actual hearing and gave me a deadline to submit documents... it's just that that date is after the preliminary hearing.

[george123]

BMWBen said:

The document I got which told me about this preliminary hearing also set the date for the actual hearing and gave me a deadline to submit documents... it's just that that date is after the preliminary hearing.

ah ok. Well as you said earlier, the pre-lim is most likely about establishing there's a case for the defence to answer which is where your proof of purchase comes in.

I'd guess once this is established, you then send out the documents to be relied on as requested & go back to court at a later date for the actual hearing.

Going back on what I said earlier , I'd just focus on the proof of purchase at the pre-lim. If the defendant (or unlikely, the judge) try to to discuss anymore than this then I'd politely decline and tell them you'll submit all your documents to be relied on in line wiht the timings requested by the court and you'll see them at the hearing.

Another guess....possibility that once the defendant sees your proof of purchase at the pre-lim, they may come back to you with an offer to settle

[KungFuPanda]

CRA1G said:

bonesX said:

Magistrates usually decide in favour of the consumer

Magistrates don't favour anyone.... they assess which ever party is right or wrong by law with the claim or defence.... I've always found them very fair and reasonable and you certainly can't pull the wool over there eyes....

It's a shame Magistrates won't be involved in this case whatsoever.

[Jasandjules]

What does the Order listing the Pre-lim say?

You already have a hearing date, and directions for disclosure?

[Shnozz]

As has been said, magistrates will have nothing to do with the claim. It will be heard by a District Judge.

The preliminary hearing in a SCT claim is a bit of an anomaly. Did you tick "yes" to mediation at A1 on the Directions Questionnaire you completed? Just wanting to discount the possibility this isn't a mediation hearing...

Either way, you have the date by which the documents have to be filed and served, together with your witness statement(s). Be sure to send these both to your opponent (or their appointed solicitors) and to the Court.

The Notice of whatever this interlocutory hearing is should say on it somewhere what it is. You might be better off scanning the document, redacting the personal information and posting a pic up here. It doesn't sound usual for a SCT case.

[Shnozz]

The only other thought that crosses my mind is whether the Defendant has disagreed this is a SCT case and the matter has been listed for an allocation hearing to decide.

[BMWBen]

Shnozz said:

As has been said, magistrates will have nothing to do with the claim. It will be heard by a District Judge.

The preliminary hearing in a SCT claim is a bit of an anomaly. Did you tick "yes" to mediation at A1 on the Directions Questionnaire you completed? Just wanting to discount the possibility this isn't a mediation hearing...

Either way, you have the date by which the documents have to be filed and served, together with your witness statement(s). Be sure to send these both to your opponent (or their appointed solicitors) and to the Court.

The Notice of whatever this interlocutory hearing is should say on it somewhere what it is. You might be better off scanning the document, redacting the personal information and posting a pic up here. It doesn't sound usual for a SCT case.

I ticked no for mediation because (and I'm sure I'm going to be asked this by the judge):

1. The defendant ignored all communication up until the point I filed a claim.
2. There are quite a few other people who have had the same thing happen, and a judgement would be more helpful to their situations.

I hope that's good enough reason!

The notice I got from the court contains the following relevant paragraphs for this strange preliminary hearing:

Judge said:

The claim is listed for a conciliation appointment at xxx on xxx sept at xxx (address of the court) allowing 20 minutes when both parties must attend. At this appointment the District Judge will explore with the parties whether the case is capable of agreement or whether the issues between the parties can be narrowed.

If either party fails to attend the conciliation appointment, judgement may be given against that party or the claim may be struck out as appropriate.

[BMWBen]

Jasandjules said:

What does the Order listing the Pre-lim say?

You already have a hearing date, and directions for disclosure?

Yes, I've got a hearing date in december, guidelines for disclosure and a deadline for doing so some time in october. All after this first hearing.

[Jasandjules]

BMWBen said:

Yes, I've got a hearing date in december, guidelines for disclosure and a deadline for doing so some time in october. All after this first hearing.

Ah what you have cited above this is a conciliation hearing i.e. to see if the parties can settle the claim before a full hearing.

That is however odd if you have ticked no to mediation. If you are not interested in mediation then it may be worth writing to the court and asking for that hearing to be vacated as you are not interested in mediation.

[BMWBen]

Got an offer to settle today... for less than a quarter of what I'm claiming... Try again.